Combo Remapper - use score text and symbols to switch articulations
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Logic 9 ADSR envelope to CC

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by rr34672, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Hi, I am trying to solve an important problem that has me hung up. I have a fader module (midi to CC # 42-49) that I would like to send ADSR or AR envelopes to as well as perhaps lfo's. I have set up touch tracks using cc automation with envelopes drawn in hyperdraw, so that when I hit a key, the automation is triggered. However, this only allows me a static envelope that is only on/off, and will not allow me to sustain the note by holding down the key.

    I was wondering if anyone knew a workaround, or even better, could recommend hardware that might solve my problem. I considered creating 2 midi regions for touch tracks corresponding to note on and note off (or attack, decay, sustain for on and release for off) but the touch track function will not allow me to do this. Any suggestions?
     
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  3. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Did you try to set the TT trigger to "Gate" or "Gate Loop" ?

    A.G
     
  4. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Yeah, I tried all of the settings. None mimics an env generator, but "multi" works ok. Gate and gate loop do sustain the note if I draw the right AM, but there is no way to release the note without an abrupt note end. Maybe there's some way to make the "gate off" input trigger another midi region with a fade out?
     
  5. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    I can only guess what you are trying to do. Keep in mind that Note ON/OFF messages are non-continuos and they trigger the TT immediately. Even you draw a fade out or fade in continuos midi data like CC when you play or release a note key you will cut the TT at a given point instantly.
    I can think about some alternative workaround using TT in combination with some Environment gear or only Environment gear but I need to see your project at least the midi tracks with the touch tracks (TT) regions and probably the instruments they must control - EXS?
    Could you attach the Logic song file somehow here or send it via email - go to my signature below and use contacts in the site.
    Regards,

    A.G
     
  6. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Yeah, this a very different project. I have no instruments, and only one AM curve per TT controlling cc #42, 43, ..... 49. I have a 8 track analog tape machine with samples I have recorded, with absolutely no dynamics at all, so I can control the dynamics with Logic through a midi to VCA (analog fader) module. 8 VCA's controlled by cc. The reason is that I want an all analog signal path.
    The TT's I am triggering are simply volume curves going to cc 42-49. There is nothing complicated here, but I would like for gate off to trigger another TT, but I'm sure that isn't easy or possible.

    How about this: is there a way to transform the gate off on one note say c3 to gate on of another note, say c4? That could be my solution! I simply draw another fade out/release curve TT for c4 triggered by c3 gate off?
     
  7. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    To my opinion this will not work... It does not matter how many Note Off/On messages you chain. The result will be one shot cause the note messages are not-continuous as I said previously. If I have time I will construct some "Auto-Motor" Environment gear which will work using additional enviro gear. In my scenario I will use Note ON for say starting Fade In Auto-motor fader and Note OFF for Fade Out the Auto-motor.
    The Auto-motor fader can be programed to come to a custom CC value and when comes to that value to fire/start a given TT (CC automation) and versa.

    A.G
     
  8. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    I think I can get it to work. If I set c3 TT to gate trigger (TT is played until key is released) and draw a long sustaining AM curve (longer than the longest note I would play )with no fade out, then set c3 gate off to c4 gate on TT (with toggle trigger on) when I release the c3 key, the c4 TT will trigger a fade out release.

    I am not familiar with transforms though, can you tell me how to transform c3 on to c4 off?
     
  9. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    It is quite complicated to use just one transformer object for that - many pro environmentalists will use at least two or three transformers for that...
    Here I will show the hint how to use only one transformer. Right now I'm away of my Logic so will try to show the tip settings offline (so report if I'm wrong).
    For example patch/cable a transformer between the Physical Input and the Input View Monitor (you path can be ANY in the environment).

    The Transformer settings:

    Conditions

    Status - (Note)
    Pitch - (=C3)
    Velocity - (<=0)
    ===============

    Operations

    Pitch - (Fix C4)
    Vel - (Fix 0)

    BTW. Note for the Environment guys. The hint it the transformer setup is the Data Byte 2 (Vel) Condition setting where I force it to (<=0). No other logic settings there will make the trick using one transformer only!

    A.G
     
  10. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    I inputted the parameters you posted but from the the output it looks like c4 is only outputting gate off and no gate off is showing up c3. So i hit c3 and it says C3 on, I let go and it says c4 off. I haven't tried it with audio yet, it may work, but I doubt it since I need both c3 off and c4 on. I'll post later when i get a chance to test it. Thanks for your help, I'm almost there after weeks of working on it. Also I patched the transformer after the keyboard and before the seq input.
     
  11. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    That's right. I think you did not explain correctly what you want in your previous post where you said "is there a way to transform the gate off on one note say c3 to gate on of another note, say c4?"
    So I showed a transformer example setting C3 ON=C3 ON; C3 OFF=C4 OFF according your original requirement.

    OK, let's fix that to your new description "I need both c3 off and c4 on"
    In other words you want to copy C3 to C4 when play C3 right?
    Here are the new transformer settings:

    Set the transformer template to "Copy matching events and Apply Operation"

    Conditions

    Status - (Note)
    Pitch - (=C3)

    ===============

    Operations

    Pitch - (Fix C4)

    In this scenario when play C3 you will see two note ON C3/C4 messages in the Input monitor, and when release the key you will see two note OFF C3/C4 messages.

    A.G
     
  12. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I want to hit c3, and in the input view, only show c3 on. When I release c3, I want to see c3 off and c4 on (and then c4 off, but I don't think that's necessary for toggle trigger).

    c3
    c3off
    c4
    (c4off)


    I tried different combinations for a couple hours, but I could never get c3 off to trigger c4 on. The problem might be that gate off messages are the default, right? So if no midi is inputted, its always in the gate off state? So attempting to trigger anything with a gate off condition won't work, that's why there is no condition for gate off in the transformer, right?
     
  13. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Hi,

    Well it is not hard to create custom message order in the environment - I just created one demo following your requirements (see the image below) but I still think this method will not work cause the T.T will be gated and behave as non-continuous gear.

    Regarding your requirement I could do that using a few transformers but I decided to show more elegant way using just a transformer and a single Sysex button. The Button idea is better cause the button can be programed to bang huge amount of custom messages etc. You see second red button which is not cabled from anywhere. You can try it - get the cable from the bottom red cable and plug into the upper red button. The upper button bangs one more message according your last wish (+ C4 Off). Keep in mind that will eliminate the C4 ON cause you use ONE SHOT messages. Many people think that may be smarter than Logic ... Anyway download the Song demo below and try just to improve your environment skills :thmbup:

    Finally I will say that the "Auto-Motor" extra gear I was talking about will work in your scenario. I'll see if I can find some time to create some prototype of that.
    Regards,

    A.G

    Note Custom Triger Gear 1 - DOWNLOAD


    [​IMG]
     
  14. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Thank you, it works! The only problem is making it work for 8 different notes but I assume I can just copy what you wrote and change the notes 8 times?
     
  15. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    You can copy my gear 8 times but you must re-design the transformer triggering note (in the old scenario C3). After that you must re-program the Sysex fader IN definition to the proper note as well as you need to select the button and double click the output "Sysex" definition in the button inspector to the left to open the Sys fader dialog. Note: one of the two messages in the Sys fader is SELECTED ! It is very important to follow that!

    To assign new note output numbers in the Sys fader, select both messages and roll the "Num" column to the target pitch after that deselect one of them following the original selection !

    I think there is more intelligent way to do that as a complex scheme but I need precise details... Try and report.
    Regards,

    A.G
     
  16. rr34672

    rr34672 New Member

    Sorry, you lost me. I just got another 8 track machine working that I want to add. So I need 16 notes, all doing the same thing. Is there a simpler way? The notes can be any, but c2 - d#3 triggering c4 -d#5 might be easiest.
     

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