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Arrange MIDI Editing

Discussion in 'Logic Wishlist' started by mk3, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    One should be able to edit MIDI data right in the Arrange Window, without having to open a separate Piano Roll or Score window.

    One should be able to simply zoom in, and therefore see the MIDI data right alongside other tracks of MIDI or audio. Well, one can currently see the data in the region, but one can't do anything with it. So what I would ask is that we are given the capability to edit directly.
  3. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    If you set HyperDraw to show Velocity, you can actually edit velocity inside each region in Arrange, and even draw velocity curves - and note lengths are shown with every velocity event. The main thing that's missing IMO is the ability do edit note lengths.
  4. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    You're right! That's a start.

    However, one should be able to do full editing of the track - pitch, note lengths, everything that one can do in the Piano Roll or Score editor. This is how DP works, for example. It's very useful to be able to edit a track alongside other tracks, to immediately see the relationship between them.
    In DP, you can zoom in as many tracks (audio or MIDI data) right in the Arrange window and edit right there.

    Also, one should be able to have the Score view right in the track as an option as well.

  5. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I have started to do this with adjacent midi regions at least by simply selecting more than one while working in the piano roll, but of course that doesn't help if you are trying to coordinate your edits with audio regions. I use the multiple midi region method with drums a lot, especially if my closed and open hats are on different tracks, which they often are.
  6. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    Since Logic 8 this is possible. Actually easier than zooming in is click on the region and the score or piano roll is shown in the edit area just below.

    Before this we just used screensets.

    This is a lot quicker than having to zoom in and out.
  7. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    You mean seeing the date from several regions in the same Piano Roll window? Yes, I work that way often. I use the Region colours to differentiate the parts. However, at times this can become very messy, so it would still be extremely useful to have the other option (editing tracks directly in the Arrange) as well.

  8. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Not if you configure a mouse button zoom function. It's actually extremely fast zooming. You right-click again to return to the zoomed out view. I've used this a few times. It's quite impressive. Plus, I think the requester had a good point in that the goal is to edit events while they are near other events. The piano roll defeats that purpose.
  9. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    You can see the MIDI data in miniature form in the Arrange window, but you can't edit it properly (you can partially edit it, like seeing velocities). I would like full editing capabilities right in the Arrange track, where it can be seen in exact time context alongside the other tracks, whether audio or MIDI.

    The Piano Roll view, while useful, does not provide the same functionality. That is, with the Piano Roll, even the L8 integrated Piano Roll window you mention, the track is not shown in the context of the other tracks of the project.

  10. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    To follow up, here is an example of how this works in Digital Performer:

    One should basically be able to have a miniature (or not so miniature, depending on how far you vertically zoom in) Piano Roll window, with option to show HyperDraw data as well, directly in the Arrange. I'm sure Apple could integrate this function in a beautiful manner, and outdo DP's implementation.

    Of course, we should still be able to edit via the other methods (integrated L8 edit window, or old-school separate edit window or window set).

  11. rzzz

    rzzz Member

    In Logic 8 and with 2 screens I always have screenset 1 set so that the 2nd screen (20') shows a piano roll. Anytime I want to edit MIDI data all I do select a region and viola there it is at max resolution. I dont find any of 'views' at the bottom of the arrange page very useful as they don't show me enough detail. Screensets are the way to go, also for other editors and the mixer.

  12. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    These are all fine workarounds, but responses should bear in mind that the requester wants to edit midi while looking at adjacent audio tracks if need be. If you are living in only midi, no problem. But MK3 was very specific with the reasoning for the request:

  13. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

  14. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    It isn't better in a global sense, but there are times when I would prefer it. I am not suggesting that we do away with the current options for editing (namely, the integrated window or the dedicated window / screen set). This would be an additional way of working.

    The advantage:
    One can edit the MIDI track (including controllers, velocities, etc) right in the context of whichever tracks one wishes to place above and below it. This means one does not have to open an additional window, window set, or window pane at all. More importantly, this allows one to compose against the audio and MIDI data of other tracks, and also do fine timing adjustments against other tracks.

  15. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Why should personal opinion negate the importance of a feature request in the mind of another user? I say, see how much support a suggestion gets before deeming it superfluous. Personally, I think it would be nice to adjust midi note lengths while looking at a transient in an adjacent audio track. So I think MK3 makes a good point. It may not be at the top of my list, but it's a good suggestion in my humble opinion.
  16. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think it should, that would be awful.
    Me too, I'm all for democracy!
  17. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Thank you, AlienImplant. Exactly.

    This comes up often for me in certain situations. For example:
    - doubling audio of actual orchestral players with MIDI of virtual instrument orchestration - need to adjust start and ends of notes, etc.
    - doubling audio drum parts with MIDI drum parts
    - tightening up timing of various MIDI parts against each other, or against audio
    - etc etc etc.

    It's one of the few capabilities I miss from my DP days (that and the MIDI arpeggiator plug-in, but that's another story). I imagine others who switch from DP might miss this also; maybe some exclusive Logic users who have never tried it might learn to love this flexibility also.

  18. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Just to emphasize: This is just a request to add another method to Logic, and not to suggest replacing or removing the current methods!

    Each producer/composer will have his/her favorite methods to use, perhaps context-dependent, and this adds one additional (and I would say extremely intuitive and visually useful) technique to editing tracks.

  19. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I'm under the impression ProTools 8 works similarly to DP; however, I can't confirm that off the top of my head. :p
  20. Ming

    Ming Member

    The 20% "views" at the bottom of the arrange window is useless.
    Need a full window, with the inspector beside it. At least the possibillity to set the preferenses to: Doubleclick track - opens a full window. That's an easy improvement to implement. Need a work around the in one but only 20% windows.
  21. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I agree, this should be an optional default behavior. In the mean time, get used to OPT+Click. :|

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