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Logic 8 Assigning arrange track to multi output channel

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by jesta, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. jesta

    jesta New Member


    I'm sure there's a simple answer to this, but I've read the manual and it's still driving me crazy!

    I'm using Logic 9, although the following was also true for Logic 8...

    Say I've got 2 software instrument tracks. Each is assigned to a unique software instrument, say, 1) Piano part playing on EVP88 and 2) an ES1 synth part.

    I want to create a multi output instrument, let's say an EXS24, and re-assign the existing parts to that: track 1) Piano part should play on EXS24 midi channel 1 and output to multi out channel 1-2; track 2) Synth part plays on midi channel 2 and outputs to multi out channel 3-4.

    So I switch the I/O input slot for part 1 over to a EXS24 Multi Output instrument. I set up my Piano patch - it's fine, playing through outputs 1-2.

    Then I go to the mixer and click the + button on the first instruments channel strip. An aux channel appears as expected showing that it's for outputs 3-4.

    In EXS24 I'll set up my synth part to output onto channels 3-4. Testing within the instrument shows this is working correctly.

    But when I go back to my arrange page I need to assign track 2, the synth part, to the EXS24 midi channel 2. I right click on the track and choose Reassign track->Mixer->Software instrument-> but there's only one option for the EXS24 there which is the existing instrument I set up for part 1, the piano. If I choose this the two arrange tracks are tied, so I cannot switch midi channels on one without it affecting the other.

    If I try to assign the track direct to the Aux channel it does nothing as you would expect.

    Am I being stupid? Am I going about it all the wrong way? I have no problem setting up multi out instruments from scratch, but can't find a way to correctly reassign existing parts. The only workaround I can find involves creating new software instrument parts and manually moving all the midi parts over to this new track. It works but it's no good for quickly auditioning different instruments for a part.

    Thanks in advance for any help to save me from my headache! :brkwl:
  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Jesta,

    You're confusing multiple output with multi timbral. The EXS 24 doe do multi output - as you've discovered by means of using the + button on the channel strip in the mixer. But it does not function multi timbrally. It does not allow for triggering multiple sounds on multiple MIDI channels from the same instrument.

    In fact, no native Logic instrument does this. Except for the EVB 3 which sorta kinda does something like this by means of allowing the two different manuals and the pedals to be accessed on different MIDI channels.
  4. jesta

    jesta New Member

    Ah yes you're right - I used a bad example.

    Where I've said EXS24 please replace it with Sampletank - that's a better example. Any ideas?
  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Press command option M to generate a new track assigned to the same instrument with the next MIDI channel. It's also available under the local "Tracks" menu.
  6. jesta

    jesta New Member

    Thanks - that's a good tip that I didn't know about.

    However, that would still require that I select the entire existing part and move it all to the newly created one, along with any tracks settings, icon etc.

    What I really want to do is re-assign an existing track to the multi timbral, multi output instrument without moving all the regions around.
  7. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    A right-click (and hold) on the track name does not do what you want?

  8. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    In the case of Sample Tank, you can easily reassign the plug in to the multi output instance. It's already multi timbral by default. The assigning to the discreet virtual outputs takes place inside of Sample Tank.

    As far as reassigning the regions to new tracks, I'm not sure there's any "instant" way of doing it. How have you created the data? If you've created it all on a single track that's addressing a single MIDI channel; how are you hearing the material now?

    You mention concern over moving track settings. How do you have unique track settings now? They apply to the entire instrument by default. If you want them applied to the unique sub outputs, you are going to need to move them to the aux/outputs that are generated from the + button on the multi output sample tank channel strip.

    I guess I'm a bit confused as to exactly how you have your data established already.....
  9. jesta

    jesta New Member

    Okay, to clarify:

    (Hypothetically) I'm creating a song. I load up a percussion instrument with a single instrument, stereo outs, on MIDI channel 1 (not that it would matter).

    Then I add a bass part, again on a single, separate instrument, stereo outs, MIDI channel 1.

    Then I realize that Sampletank has the perfect percussion sound. I switch the instrument to Sampletank, creating a multi output instrument as I intend to possibly make use of it's multi timbral functionality.

    A short time later I decide I'd like to hear my bass part played by Sampletank's patches in case I prefer those. I create the additional aux outputs in the mixer by using the + symbol on my existing sampletank channel strip. It creates the new output channel showing outputs 3-4.

    (By the way I understand how to set up midi channels and outputs within Sampletank itself)

    I would THINK that to change my bass part to play on MIDI channel 2 through Sampletank that I'd right-click the track name in the arrange window and choose Reassign Track->Mixer->Software Instrument-> and then the Sampletank instrument. However, I can only assign it to the existing Sampletank part (the percussion sound).

    The obvious thing to do then is to change the MIDI channel of the arrange track to 2. But when I do that the arrange track for the percussion part ALSO changes to MIDI channel 2. I cannot separate the behaviour of the two channels.

    I could set up an additional arrange track and move the regions over, but it's inconvenient and if I have things set up in the inspector for the track I'll need to copy them over too. Things like the arrange track icon, transposition, velocity, delay, score style etc.

    It's been a while since I used Cubase, but if I wanted to reassign a track there I'd simply select an instrument that's in the instrument window in the output menu of the arrange track and then select the relevant midi channel number.

    Is that any clearer?
  10. jesta

    jesta New Member

    I've found a semi-solution. What I hadn't tried yet was to use the command option M track with next midi channel trick before trying to reassign. If I do that I can then reassign the track to that channel. It's not perfect - it still loses any arrangement track settings I had and I've then got to delete the new empty track I created.

    The only other solution I can find is to have separate instances of instruments for each track, but I really like being able to make changes from one window especially in things like Sampletank.
  11. Fabulowsky

    Fabulowsky Member

    Hi Jesta,
    if you know what instruments you like to interchange in advance, you can do the trick by creating in the Environment your own Custom Multi-Instrument...

    You can achieve that by creating first a midi instrument, then you link it serially to a switch, then the switch can connect to several complex instruments. Then you can open a little environment window close to your arrange window with the switch accessible and use it to preview a different version at each single click !

    That's even more powerful than what you asked for but it makes the assumption that you know in advance which instrument you'll use (i.e Sampletank, es1,exs24 and so on..) and also that you know about the UNIQUE & BEAUTIFUL environment design features in logic ;)

    It's complex, but some LUG power users here in this forum published interesting DVDs,Books on the subject ; have a look at their signature ...
  12. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Jesta,

    Sorry for the delayed reply. But this is exactly what I was going to suggest. A combination of my original suggestion and Peter's. Basically, like you figured out, create the instrument with the next midi channel; then use the reassign function.

    As far as losing the channel strip settings; they're lost already. If you're using a multi timbral instance of Sample tank, there's no way to have unique processing for the unique sub channels other than by using the multiple outputs function and then placing plug ins on the aux tracks.

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