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Avid 11R with logic

Discussion in 'Studio Techniques' started by orcasound, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Could I get your read on the Eleven R -
    I am thinking about picking one up this week -
    Currently I've been using AT3, PodFarm2., and sometimes the Logic Amps - with success - but the software monitoring, etc etc = really can be a headache.
    I'd prefer to just track in logic - the eleven would allow me to 1) have a dedicated gtr box.... that would allow me to track into logic with 1) the effected signal and 2) a clean signal that I can send out to reamp later - / I can get the 11R for $625.00 - and it comes with a voucher for PT10, (as there is no more LE) - plus it comes with the expansion for the 11R as well as another bundle for PT - actually I've never been a PT guy.. but heck its like getting it for free.

    Question - does the 11R interface well with Logic? - I know the GUI is a PT only benefit as well as embedding patch presets in the audio files - but how about the dry and clean signal routing, re-amping - does it wok well with L9?
    I was thinking about kist routing into my patch bay and going Analog in/out of my rosetta - I was given the advice to steer clear of 11R and go with the new Pod Pro HD - as its routing was like heaven compared to 11R // as I have PodFarm2 Pro - I kind of had my fill with Line6 sound.
  3. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    Hi Orcasound,

    I'm right there with you. I too am thinking of buying an 11Rack. I reviewed Digidesign 11 plug-in years ago when it first came out in software, and at the time I thought it was among the very best modelers available. I was intrigued by the "True-Z" concept of switchable resistors to get a more "authentic" input sound, and of course a free copy of Pro Tools never hurt anyone. ;) Now that it's got even more amps, I'm even more tempted. It's just a matter of saving the money.

    Having never used one with Logic, I can't give you any sort of direct experience. But if by "interface well" you mean you can use it as a Core Audio device and reamp, yes.You aren't limited to analog with an 11R with Logic.

    I know nothing about the Line 6 HD Pod Pro. I had an old POD Pro about a decade ago and liked it, but I've moved on since. Perhaps it's really excellent, I don't know. I've honestly never even heard the new POD HD stuff.

  4. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna pick up a demo this week - hopefully and give it a whirl.
    Again - I don't think switching to PT is gonna be an option- (yes a free copy wouldn't hurt) but right now I'm a happy camper with 2/2408mkIIIs, a 24io and an old 308 MOTU pcie setup. - hopefully I can just run this this things IO through my patchbay. I remember years ago trying a line6 tone port or something like that - and core audio didn't like the mixture of pciE and USB devices....
    I had heard that it's not as easy with an 11r not running PT.
    And that the record wet signal and record dry signal at the same time may not wrk -
  5. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    Considering the price of PT 10 with NO interface is $699, what's to think over?

    At the time I bought the 11R, it was the new kid on the block. The naysayers compared it to the Axe FX, which I think was more than twice the price. There used to be a forum for THD amp enthusiasts, and quite a few of those posters had foot-pedal racks with composite retails of well over $1,000.

    The Dimarzio site is loaded with audio samples showing off their pickups. A few of the demos are by a guitarist named Carl Culpepper, who has a web site of his own where he explains how he gets his tone. Stomp boxes like the Zen Drive, and assorted compressors, etc., cost several hundred bucks each, so the 11R, even without the software, gets you a huge bang for your buck. There are compressors, distortions, phasers, flangers, eqs, echos, reverbs, amp models, speaker models, a tuner, a mic pre, a fancy input mode, two amp outs, two XLR outs, SPDIF out, AES out...

    Come on, this thing was absolutely killer! At the time I bought mine, it came with PT8, too...which finally included score viewing of MIDI data. Thank you very much.

    So, let's see. The mic pre has about 60db of gain, enough for a dynamic mic, the converters go up to 96K, and when you load Pro Tools, you have a graphic interface that looks exactly like the physical counterparts of the emulated stomp boxes. You can modify the graphic interface and save your changes to the 11R, or modify the 11R running standalone, and upload your mods to the computer. What's to consider?

    Well, there have been reports that one run had an issue with the clock. Mine has not, but it was one of the first off the line. However, there was an issue with some units that required replacing the amp output jack on the front, which Avid covered under warranty (they sent me the jack/cable assembly and I had to open up the unit and plug it into the motherboard).

    Limitations? Well, the naysayers were a super finicky bunch, most had an assortment of valuable guitars and more than one boutique amp.

    The solution: plug the 11R into a trick tube amp. I use it live going into a MESA Engineering Simul-Stereo 395. A what? It's got eight 6L6 Phillips NOS tubes and can run in either AB or a combination of AB and Class A mode, with 95 watts per side. So, even with the 11R set for super clean, I can get the tube compression and mild breakup that enthusiasts try to emulate with stomp boxes.

    Oddly enough, the most serious attempt at recording guitars into Logic I did with my THD Univalve. It is Class A, and rated at 15 watts. But it drives a 4x12 enclosure and has the natural "break into octave" harmonics that are hard to get out of something totally digital. I recorded using mid-side with two tube mics, one set up in a cardioid pattern, the other in figure 8. I also ran a separate line out from the Univalve into a Fender Champ 50 feet away in a room with natural echo. So there were three tracks during the take, and I doubled the figure eight, flipped its phase 180 degrees to make a fourth, then I mixed the four tracks.

    I did this three more times, so there were sixteen tracks for the four lead guitar takes. There were also two acoustical rhythm guitar takes (also mid-side), a direct electric guitar that I fattened with a Logic guitar setting, and an electric bass track, that I doubled and tried out some of Logic's bass guitar tweaks.

    Needless to say, the point of the 11R is to eliminate some of this overkill, but I did not own it at the time. I have a Hafler MP100T preamp, an early MIDI controllable unit, that has a really nice clean sound. I also have the Digitech Valve FX and the Artist 2120. Lots of sounds in there, too.

    The compatibility of the 11R with Pro Tools is a big deal if you are working on a project for several months and the producer wants you to add or change something using the same sound you put down a session ago. You can encode your preset into the track, and then re-load the setting if you want to add to a track using the same sound. For me to do that with the mid-side setup, I would need to set up two tube mics, route them first into the same stereo tube pre which was chained into a stereo tube compressor, and run the outputs into the converters for my front end to Logic. Not to mention try to remember how I had set the dials on all that stuff and have the same mics and speakers available.

    So, yeah... $625 is like getting it for free. You could resell the ilok license for PT10 and get most of your clams back.

    The 11R is a USB interface, and the preset encoding happens direct if you use it as the front end to Pro Tools. However, you can connect its AES output into a Pro Tools HD setup, and the HD tracks will also encode your presets, they are also carried on the AES outputs when used with PT HD. When using the 11R with Pro Tools, it can record direct at the same time as with presets, and there is a re-amp feature in case you want to use the direct signal later on to use either the built-in DSP FX or to send an output into a "real" amp (simultaneously using the mic input to capture the speaker's output) to get the specific color you are seeking.

    The 11R is advertised as a six input/eight output interface, but here is what you need to know: there are three pairs of inputs: guitar and mic, two line inputs, and two digital inputs, either SPDIF or AES/EBU. Some may be unaware that the older Digidesign 888/24 units operate in stand-alone mode, and their converters are D/A -110dB SNR and 0.003% THD, 20 Hz to 20 kHz +- 1dB, similar to the MOTU PCI units. Their A/D is 113dB SNR, slightly better. If you want four line inputs (in addition to the mic and guitar inputs...), you will need to pick up some converters compatible with AES or SPDIF, and the 888/24 units are inexpensive. The limitation of the 888/24 is they will only do 44.1 or 48. But any converter with AES/EBU outputs can be used.

    The eight outputs are two "amp" outputs, one of the front, one on the back, two XLR balanced outputs, two FX send outputs, and two digital outputs. There are also FX loop returns if you have a favorite stomp box or effect you want to add. The re-amp feature is part of the software, and is a short-cut for the patch (track output to amp/mic in to additional track...).

    Sorry for the verbosity, but even if you hate it, you can always re-sell it.

    Since I purchased it, Avid released an expansion pack for $99. It is a firmware upgrade that adds bass guitar models, a few new amp models and some processing for the mic input.

    You can probably accomplish what you want without it. I have a Focusrite ISA One. It has the ability to record direct along side its mic input, as well as 192 kHz optional AES converters and some latency-free monitoring abilities. Plus, it has 80db of gain, a good idea if you use ribbon mics. But it costs about the same as the 11R, and is not a Logic interface.
  6. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Just picked up the loner 11r- heading into the shop to see how it all hooks up.
  7. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    There is an issue with the recent shipment of 11R units bundled with the 2.01 firmware update and PT 10: although the enhanced amp models are in the interface itself, you have to run a patch to update PT 10 to recognize the additional models in the 11R's GUI. This was an oversight by Avid. They have posted a download to correct this issue. Basically you run the firmware updater, but ignore the firmware update and just install the patch to PT 10 software. My firmware is still at 1.03, so I missed that round of fun.

    The presets in the 11R can also be paged up and down with a two-button type footswitch with a TRS plug, or a CC type pedal for wah-type FX can be added. And, of course, it has MIDI I/O.
  8. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Ok - so the eleven rack is siting in the studio - Out of respect to my GC Pro rep - and of course, the fact that I wanna put this thing through its paces, - I didn't install PT10 - as if I didn't like the unit and returned it - I would still have a PT10 license... so I have the unit hooked up via AES into my MOTU 308, going via PCIe into Logic - I successfully got audio into Logic, and most importantly, was able to send my dry gtr tracks out of Logic into the 11R, and back in...
    seemed pretty painless. - With this current set up - the 11R is receiving clock via my Apogee - via the MOTU PCIe card. - The only thing I noticed - the level on Logic's meters read about -11 from the wet input coming back to from the 11R - Im sure when I actually dive into this thing - there are input and output adjustments.

    Juan - couple of questions.
    1. Obviously I see a huge benefit in running PT to work with thing via the GUI, create RIGS, save presets, etc. - I would think that I can just open PT, with no project or session open - and access the GUI for 11R?
    2. I kind of like having the 11r via AES into my MOTU - Can I keep in the same while using with PT for GUI benefit? - meaning even if I hook the 11R via USB, am I forced to use the audio driver for input and output - or can I leave it as AES, and the USB connectivity for updates, and GUI interaction with PT.

    I am still delving into the sound of this thing as well - as mentioned I have Amplitube3, POD Farm 2 PRO, and of course the Logic stock stuff -
    the real downer here -is that I am not a guitarist - so I can't grab an axe and go through the presets - this really was a purchase to simplify and provide my gtr playing clients with a front end - that will eliminate the latency issues and general headache of software monitoring.
    Juan - lets say that half my clients are into clean tones, country, tele type stuff - jazz, - etc - Can the 11R, in your opinion - handle the cleaner type tones well.? - For sure the presets seemed geared to rock out with -

    Thanks for all your help - (btw my intern freaked when he came into work tonight - sent me a text - "YOU BOUGHT PROTOOLS ??????" / I guess he saw the box and license card - I had to talk him down on the phone.

    Orca Sound
  9. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    It's not just the 11R, but most stuff marketed towards guitarists presumes they want to play air guitar with Eddie Van Halen or Jimi Hendrix. As much as I like Foxy Lady, about the same point in history, i also listened to Tal Farlow, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass and even players like Julian Bream and Narcisso Yepes. So you are 100% correct, the presets favor long-haired hippy freaks, not John Williams or Christopher Parkening.

    But it does not mean you are not free to edit them. The initial editing in the box is addressed by holding the "Edit/Back" button pressed in for about two seconds. Say hello to the "User options." You can use the scroll wheel to move up and down, the four little orange boxes illuminate as you arrive at the additional items. If you want to change an item, press the "Select" button: that will illuminate one of the dials below the edit window, and you can select whatever you are trying to do. Try it with "Rig input" -- that lets you route whichever input you are using into the 11R. Sure, most of the time you will set it to "guitar" -- but you can plug in a mic, keyboard, a digital send from somewhere, or activate the "Re-amp" feature. Tons of stuff in there, so don't think you can figure it out without modest effort.

    The first thing I edited was the selection called "Rig-Balancing." When I played through the presets, the first thing I noticed was some were too loud relative to others. And some were -20 dB -- I was searching for "clean" tones. I have custom Strats with +25 dB 9v overdrives hidden under the pick guards, so, if I want banshee tones, I can roll a dial on my guitar, instead of running back to my amp stack, or hoping the stage is bright enough for me to see the correct foot pedal. To do "Rig Balancing" justice, you have to play through all the presets, and adjust them so if you do hop around different presets, you don't shatter glass or blow your speaker cones.

    I have both Pro Tools and Logic installed on my Mac Pro, but I never use them simultaneously. Pro Tools uses its own driver. When you use Logic, the core audio (Mac) or ASIO (PC) driver lets Logic or whatever PC program you have use the 11R. I have PT HD installed on a Windows7 64 bit machine. There is a 64 bit 11R driver that I could use with my Vegas video software if I wished. So you can have both Logic and PT installed on the same machine, but you can't have them running simultaneously.

    But, using the 11R as you suggest, taking the AES output of the 11R into a different interface (like MOTU's 308 or 1224), you could install Pro Tools on either a second Mac or separate PC. But even then, I don't think you would want Pro Tools open on one machine, and Logic open on the other. Might be possible, I use Logic on a Mac with Gigastudio on a PC (time to upgrade that one...), but Gigastudio was meant to be slaved. I have a lot of wordclock and syncs holding the two machines together. I would think just use the GUI, shut down PT and then run standalone to grab the AES output into your Logic setup. You could pick up a MacBook or PC laptop, and use the 11R for remote recording. You could also switch your Logic preferences between the MOTU driver and the AVID 11R driver if you want to experiment.

    An early change to the firmware was the addition of meters when using the 11R standalone. Instead of holding the "Edit/Back" button for two seconds, tap it lightly, just once. Now the scroll wheel will let you see the FX in a right-left configuration. Go all the way to the far right, keep going and going, and you will see the "Meters." These were added so you can troubleshoot routing and level issues. The illuminated dial allows you to select whichever I/O signal you want to check out.

    Question for you: did you receive an ilok in your package? If so, it should have a license already on it. Beginning with PT9, you need an ilok. When you register with Avid, they deliver the license to your ilok account, and there you can download it. If the license is already on the ilok, you could run Pro Tools without registering it with Avid. If there is no ilok, then you would have to register the software first, and that would muck up any return, or at least require a "transfer of ownership" and an ilok transfer fee or new ilok to pass the PT ilok license along to the next owner.

    I am reasonably certain that the 11R with the 2.01 fireware will still run on Pro Tools 8.05, which does not require an ilok. You would be showering with a raincoat if you never check out the PT 11R GUI.

    You can definitely set the 11R's clock to "external" -- just as you must be doing.

    As far as using Pro Tools to only edit your rigs, you just create a new empty session, and select the 11R window from the main menu drop down. It is much easier on the eyes, but you eventually would want to understand both the standalone and GUI advantages. The GUI lets you load all the presets from the 11R and save a copy as a computer file. Then you can always recover your base setup after the deaf-dumb-blind kid starts spinning the 11R's edit knobs.

    The way you want to use the 11R, is the way it is meant to used by PT HD. HD takes over the DSP and audio driver functions, and the 11R receives clock and sends output by way of the AES/EBU connection.

    As far as letting every guitarist that walks into your studio play with it, it sounds like maybe a colossal risk of valuable studio time. If they want clean, just plug them into a high quality pre with few controls. Then you charge them for adding the spice they want later. My guess is you are not going to want to listen while they scroll through 100 presets, playing the first 4 measures of Stairway to Heaven as they go...
  10. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Thanks again for the detailed responses - much appreciated.
    To answer your question - yes - there was a ProTools Registration card and an ilok2 included in the box / not sure if a license was on the ilok or if they were just throwing a bone by giving you a "free" one. The way I understood from my rep - I download PT and register on line from the card and they send the license to my ilok account -but you might be correct - maybe they've already put the license on the included ilok.

    My test for this 11R was a band i just produced and recorded - like every other teen band- they wanna be Blink182... //

    my standard for gtr tracking -if the player has a tone and prefers to bring in his rig - great - we mic his amp - and that happens quite a bit - but there are occasions where they have n preference... or in some cases no amp! // so when I am producing or picking the tones - I can sit there and noodle around it Amplitube3 or PodFarm2 / Logic amps - eh, not so much but then when I track, i have to go into logic enable software input, track with latency - granted very minimal, but some of these people today have trouble playing with a click - throw a 5ms latency on there and their like a deer staring at the hood of your car.
    So I've got 2 gtr plugins open, activating software monitor input, latency, and at the end of the day - I still have a "clean" gtr track with the plug in.
    9 times out of 10 - I'm flexing these guitars, and in some sad cases - using melodyne to pitch them - because somehow the art of "tuning" a guitar has been lost amidst a pop-punk generation.
    My goal was to have a dedicated front end gtr-amp sim that could cover a lot of bases quickly, that was tweak able, had lots of pedal-type stuff and could track clean gtr as well as "wet" in the event that the player nailed it with the need to edit... that would save me some time on the editing side - and avoid the latency issue and software monitoring debacle.

    So back to my test case - I sent the clean gtr tracks out of logic - which worked fine - the 11r locked into the apogee clock and the AES with the MOTU was seamless - With my limited knowledge of the 11R - I'm browsing through presets - looking for TomDelong blink 182 thing - just to test - but by a/b ing the sounds to the amplitude and pod farm stuff - I must admit that the 11R had the edge in terms of tone. I just got to get about digging into these amps and tweaking the rigs a bit more. I think I am gonna like this thing - and of course getting a PT10 included in the deal - as you said made it a no brainer. Having used DP for 15 years, and Logic for the last 3 - I can say that Logic seems to be my final stop for DAWs - so getting hooked on PT is definitely not gonna happen - L9 seems to really have it together - for me - and the way my mind works - PT looks to be alot more like DP in terms of methodology - the American DAW mentality. - But in a perfect world - Logic 10 will come out this week and be everything that I am hearing it will be , and at the same exact moment - AVID will announce the stand-a-lone editor for 11R and also as an AU plug... right?
  11. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Also - just a side note - the final deciding factor - was the nice orange faceplate - and the lights out - how does it look in my rack - test.
    Looks good. Bought it.
  12. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    So, there you go!

    My apologies for some misinformation. Avid's forum, the "DUC" (Digi User Conference) has a section for "all things guitar" -- you probably should bookmark it now that Avid has your money.

    At least one 11R user on it claims to be able to use his PT simultaneously with Logic. I have never tried it, but I said it was not possible and now think maybe, if you want to risk totally corrupting your hard drive, and live dangerously, maybe it can be done. Both my Logic and Pro Tools are stable, so I won't be starting them simultaneously any time soon. I originally set up two separate hard drives to boot into OSX, and would reboot each time I switched from Pro Tools to Logic. That was maybe being too conservative, but I have seen too many blue screens and spinning rainbow cartwheels of death to waste my time experimenting with undocumented features.

    Also, the number of inputs and outputs is also stated there as 8 and 6, I think I said 6 and 8. The re-amping is a feature you can select in Pro Tools, which in some ways counts. But I was thinking along the lines of just counting jacks on the 11R itself.

    I see the 11R advertised at $899, not sure why you got one so cheap, but you bought into a lot of flexibility.

    Don't pooh-pooh the free ilok2. I just bought one for $50.
  13. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    just to confirm... the dongle was empty - the license no. was on a card - and I downloaded and the license was sent to my ilok account. - so I have a spare ilok!

    again my goal this evening is going to be able to see if the USB connectivity of the 11R will give me tempo sync for effects, access to the editor and presets of the GUi, without having to use the 11R's driver for audio -
  14. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    Orren - just an update - I know you were interested in this Eleven-R
    Just a couple of observations

    1. 11R - Solid Build, I think it sounds excellent as compared to Amplitube3, PodFarm2, Logic Amps - which I have in my crayon box as well. Front panel navigation is bearable, the expansion (which was incl) is also worth the price. I always loved IK's Ampeg SVT - but the 11R's Ampeg - will prob become the go to. Cllients say that the thing "feels" Like an amp - head and shoulders over the iTB counterparts mentioned above - and the TrueZ Gtr input seems to really fit the bill. I've also tracked into the mic input on some vocals and some other things - very interesting and usefu results.

    2. Configuration - I am running a MOTU 2408mkIII, 24io and a MOTU 308 via PCIe - I opted to hook the eleven rack up via AES into the MOTU 308 -
    With Logic - everything I did from the front panel - it immediately saw the clock from my BigBen, locked, I/O out of Logic was a breeze - even routing the dry/wet signal simultaneously - -
    Though to really get into the box - and to speed workflow - JuanT. is correct in that the 11R GUI in ProToosls really makes the deal.. Now the 11R is hooked up via USB - pretty cool in that PT10 automatically sees the 11R and opens up the 11r GUI right off the bat - There was some trickery involved in getting PT to understand that no, I wasnt using the 11R/USB as an audiointerface - but was sending it digital via AES into the MOTU - of course connecting the 11R to USB, made the 11R freak out regarding the clock - I could not change the settings on the 11r front panel - as it kept telling me to change those settings in the DAW / of course from the 11R GUI you cant. -so basically I had to go to Audio/MIDI setup- choose PrTools aggregate device option - go to the 11R and then choose its clock to the AES / all in all very cumbersome, and felt a little like "jerry-rigging"

    Of course installing PT10, configuring it with my MOTU PCI interface - which is virtually impossible - makes me reallize why I love Logic - but on gtr heavy sessions with lots of gtr tone checks and presets and multitracking - the 11R GUI speeds up workflow immensely.
    Finally realizing that PT10 Native is limited to 32ch. i/o / and even though my MOTU set up config reports only 26i/o - PT10 still sees all the io - this of course causes crashinhg on some PT commands (namely Command+2 - session settings) and Avid was of little or no help - blowing it back onto MOTU)

    So I guess I can stomack ProTools for the gtr heavy stuff - but at the end of the day - latency free, no software monitoring, gtr tracking - through a great sounding box - with a lot of options ... for $625.00 plus basically a free copy of PT10 - and of course another ilok2 for good measure -
    It really was a no brainer.

    btw .. I couldnt resist and bought Eli's ProTools 10 explained - to help get my feet wet. He seemed a lot happier when he was making those Logic videos - perhaps he or Doug will have the LP10 ones here soon!

    orca sound
  15. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    And thank you for the update!

    Excellent. That's what I was hoping! :thmbup:

    Is it possible to have PT10 open solely as the "GUI editor host" and then use Logic as your DAW?

    Very cool!

    I think that would probably require LP10 to be released first. ;)

  16. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    Question about your total I/O with your MOTU setup. I have two Logic setups, with one I use the 11R, with the other I have a MOTU with 2408mk3, 2408mk2, 308 and 1224. I wonder why you say your MOTU setup reports 26 I/O, shouldn't it be 26 [2408] + 24 [24 I/O] + 12 [308: (4) optical + (4) coax + (4) AES]? Maybe I missed something there.

    Also, with PT10 or PT9, there are two ways to bring your voiceable track count to 192 or 256 tracks. The $2,000 Complete Production Toolkit (CPT) is obviously very pricy, but the other way is to acquire an ilok authorized for PT10HD. That unlocks the CPT features (including the 256 track count) when you are running without the associated HD hardware. For instance, tracking with HD, but mixing/editing somewhere else with other supported interfaces.
  17. orcasound

    orcasound Member

    yes- you are correct in terms of what the total IO would be - but MOTU is reporting correctly what I have activated for this partic config that I have set up now - / which is 26 ins and 26 outs active.
    2408 - Bank A 8I/8O Bank B 8I / Bank C 8I (apogee rosetta, Digital I from micpres)
    24io - 16 out (summing stems / cue mixes)
    308 - Bank A 2I/2O (the eleven rack)

    --the problem is that PT10 is not only seeing whats currently active - but whats globally available from all three interfaces. - a problem that I assume MOTU would have to address with an update to their PCI driver. // I gather from my limited contact with Avid Support that they'd prefer to not talk about 3rd party interface support - but rahter try and sell me some Avid Hardware..... and of course, MOTU would rather have me upgrade my DP5 to DP7 -

    Good idea on the PT10 ilok. upgrade- if this becomes a major issue - that might be an option - the problem is tho - that PT is not enticing me all that much at this moment to spend the enery or additional money - stll feel pretty at home in Logic.

    question tho for you:
    If I choose ProTools aggregate device for my Playback engine - I can use the command+2 and get to the session set up screen without a crash - is there really a problem with using the PT aggregate device as the playback engine?
    I havent completely tested it - but it appeared as if everything was working - and in the Apple Audio/Midi Setup - under PT aggregate device - I do see the PCI, the eleven rack and of course Mac built in audio all wrapped up into the PT Aggregate device. - My workaround at this momemt is to basically set up the session correctly from the get go and avoid the need to command+2

    re the eleven rack.... i must admit once I hooked the unit up via USB - the eleven rack would not allow me to change the clock source from the front panel. - basically the display message instructed me to change the clock source from within my DAW. / and it was obvious that it was not clocking propery - I ended up going into the Apple Audio/Midi Setup and setting its clock from there - / I just seem to feel that when in PT - that somethings not right - or its gonna "break" / I approach my time with it - very gingerly.
    But you are very correct in that - the eleven rack with the GUI in PT is pretty sweet -


  18. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    Have you tried disconnecting the 11R from your USB port so that PT10 does not bypass the I/O settings in the MOTU hardware setup page? I have never tried what you are doing. But it seems to me it is unlikely you can have both the 11R and the MOTU setup operating simultaneously.

    And I have stayed away from "aggregate" devices altogether. My story is I bought the 11R for myself, but it made my wife jealous (she records/writes/publishes piano repertoire), so I told her I needed it as an interface for her Logic setup. My MOTU system has 64 ins and 66 outs and is interconnected with a PC that plays back samples by way of ADAT: too clunky to move around.

    Anyway, with my 11R dedicated to a piano repertoire publishing rig, it gave me an excuse to buy HD cards (the 11R was a diversion tactic...), and pop them into a PC running Win7 64 bit. Consequently, I have three distinct setups and no desire to experiment with mixing the hardware together.

    On the other hand, my son uses Logic to create/arrange/orchestrate MIDI scores, and ProTools to mix. He grabbed onto my PTHD9 ilok so he could run PT9 with CPT functions with his TC Electronic interface as the front end.

    With upgrades for PT10HD costing as much as hardware interfaces, it is a trick to decide where to throw my money. Plus, Minnesota is cold this time of year, and it costs similar money to get to the Caribbean.

    The bottom line, I like stability: I detest blue screens and the spinning rainbow cartwheel of death. I am equally at home on either the Mac or PC, and could care less about OS "applets" that I never use and just bog down workflow.

    As to Logic vs ProTools: each has unique abilities.

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