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Logic 8 Beat mapping!?!

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by afavreau, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Hi,

    I'm trying to beat map my piano performance that I really don't want to lose but Logic keeps telling me: "Setting this beat would have caused the corresponding tempo value being too low".

    If I can't beat map it, I won't be able to build the orchestra around it.

    Thanks for you help!
     
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  3. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    OK! I got it!

    It is better to leave a empty measure in the beginning and start on measure 2, not 1.

    Thanks!
     
  4. With Logic, this has always been a good idea. Even if we can add "negative bars", offsets and what not, there's always been problems with them.
    Personally, I start each and every project at bar 5. That way, I won't be affected by said problems but will still be able to make use of Logics "4 bar ruler" organisation. Starting at bar 2 probably isn't the best idea because of that. Better use 5, 9, 13, etc.

    In addition, when you try to do some beatmapping, try to get as close to the initial tempo as you can with your initial Logic tempo. I noticed that beatmapping would sometimes put out funny results in case I started with an initial tempo being too far away from what it actually was.

    - Sascha
     
  5. Colin Shapiro

    Colin Shapiro Senior member

    Note to admin:

    You should note all this kind of useful stuff and put it into a "Tips & Tracks" page.....

    I also never start on bar 1 beat 1, but newcomers won't know this and I don't think this kind of advice is in the Logic manual.
     
  6. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Grrr...,

    I thought everything was fine, but then in the middle of the track, I started having this message again: "Setting this beat would have caused the corresponding tempo value being too low".

    Then I started at measure 3, but it didn't help. I'm not sure that starting at measure 5 can help (although I will certainly follow that advice in the future, thx).

    I don't know why it does that?

    I also put my original tempo at 62, which is the average tempo of the piece.

    I also notice that ,without explaining why, the manual says: Start from the left, at the first bar position that you want to assign to a MIDI note.

    Does "starting from the left or right" have anything to do with this?

    Thanks for your help!
     
  7. David51

    David51 Senior member

    You could try "Tap tempo" i found it in the main user manual- you apparently record a tempo track while listening to the audio track and tap any key at each quarter note, the manual's suggested quantity
     
  8. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    I have found that starting from the left works best. When you work on subsequent nodes later in the timeline (ie: the "right") they sometimes affect the preceding nodes in unpredictable ways.
     
  9. Yeah. One of the main quirks also making later corrections a tough thing to do. You better get things right in the very first place.
    Pretty much a shame because the general way beartmapping works is fantastic, I've already been able to remap "un-clicked" songs in almost no time with extremely accurate results. Just that once said unpredictability kicks in, things get really nasty. I got used to save before any substantial edit I do.

    - Sascha
     
  10. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    I'm not sure, but I think Beat Mapping won't allow tempos below 40 BPM.

    Maybe my problem is that my average tempo is 62, and being an orchestral piece with big Ralentendos, Beat Map just can't do it.

    Maybe Beat Mapping should not be done on too slow tempos, meaning, instead of recording at 62 BPM, we should double the tempo at 124 BPM while recording.

    Does that make sense?
     
  11. Yeah, that could make sense. But you could easily change the rempo afterwards, too. In case there's already some cut regions, make sure to SMPTE lock everything before doing so.
    Just that you'd have to deal with double time time signatures while working from then on, which I usually find a little disturbing (let alone that the metronome will be in felt 8ths, so it's probably the best idea to create a half note click track, too).

    In your case, another way would be to force beatmapping to "interprete" only those rallentandos as being doubletime, by simply adding additional markers and then connecting them to "wrong" bar markers - should be quite disturbing in case you want to use a metronome along with that, though.

    Cheers
    Sascha
     
  12. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    OK! So this is what we can conclude from this Beat Mapping topic

    1-It's a good idea to leave a couple of measures before your song. Start at bar 5 for example. This is actually good for all songs.

    2-Before recording, select Logic's tempo at about the average tempo of your song

    3-Always start Beat Mapping from left to right as it is mention in the manual

    4-Be careful of slow tempos because Logic won't analyse below 40BPM, so if you have a slow song (say 63 BPM), you mignt have a big ralentendo below 40 and it won't work. In this case, double Logic's tempo (Ex: 126 instead of 63) and beat map accordingly.

    Thanks to those who helped me!

    Andre Favreau
     
  13. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    Hi,

    I don't think it helps the BM process to start eg. in bar 2, 3 or 4, as long as the first note is placed on 1111. So instead of your suggested 4 points, my first point would rather be: Before starting the BM process, select your relevant material (MIDI or audio) and move it so the first transient/the first MIDI note starts on 1111. It's not necessary, but it gives a better overview, and at least means that you don't need to occasionally dealing with material before 1111.

    The way I start, is always to manually use BM to define the tempo of the first bar (or first few bars). Since the first note already is at 1111, I do this by dragging a line from the BM track to the note that appears in 2111 (or a later bar - corresponding to the source note). By doing this, I don't need to use the extra step with the BMP Counter plug-in - and will also get a more accurate result than that plug-in can offer.

    I can't remember having had any problems with beat mapping to tempi below 40 BPM; but then again, I beat map tracks manually, I always skip that suggested part where Logic is analyzing the track for you.

    There's a bug in 8.02 that deletes tempo events appearing before your first BM event when you start BM'ing anything with tempo changes before your relevant section. There's a way to deal with this ("pseudo-beatmap" every position that has a tempo event by connecting a line from the BM track onto that same position in the track you'll BM).

    When having these few things in mind, I've always been able to get a good result if I avoid human errors.

    There are of course some limits to what BM can do; for instance, if you have a project with both audio and MIDI regions, you can end up with a very weird result - since a musical phrase inside an audio region normally is a fixed set of events, internally 'locked' to each other, while MIDI events are not locked on each others positions the same way.

    The only big weakness in the BM system is IMO that there's no reasonable way to beat map only a section of a song without risking disturbing what happens before and after that area. Some of these situations can, at least partially, be dealt with by locking (and later unlocking) events to the timeline ("SMPTE"), but I hope we'll see a major update one day which will default to only beat map within the locators (as an option), and lock everything before and after the locators both to the grid and to absolute time position, as if they existed in a separate project. If Logic will get that, it would be light years ahead of where it is now.
     

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