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Logic 8 can someone explain the 'solo' feature?

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by peterlemer, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    When bouncing a MIDI piano region, if I have the yellow 'solo' button on the Arrange track header engaged, then a Melodyne fragment from another track will be included in the bounce. I can kill this by muting the melodyned track in the Mixer channel strip /but not if I mute it in the Arrange track header/

    ditto if I simply highlight the region and select the global 'Solo' button

    On the other hand, if I solo the desired piano in the Mixer channel strip I don't need to mute the melodyned track anywhere.

    I find this a tad confusing - can anyone enlighten me please?

    and is there any difference to the bounce quality if I choose either solo(arrange)+manually mute(mixer) others; or simply solo(mixer)?

    pete
     
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  3. sonnykeyes

    sonnykeyes Senior member

    I'm just guessing here, but I'm pretty sure when you use Melodyne on a track, Melodyne makes a new copy of your audio and, using a process of its own outside of your DAW's processes, plays that one back instead. I'm going to guess that the Melodyne process mirrors the functionality of Logic in every way, but someone forgot to make it copy BOTH of Logic's Solo functions and only made it copy one of them. Just a guess.
     
  4. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    Some background first:

    There are two kinds of MUTE in Logic:

    ChannelStrip Mute: this is akin to the mute on a conventional mixer.

    Region Mute: this actually prevents the region itself from being part of the data stream at all (as if it doesn't exist). That's why it's a bit slower to mute/unmute a region.

    Track Mute is EITHER "no different than Region Mute for every region on the track" or "no different than ChannelStrip Mute". There is a preference which dictates how the trackmute button will behave. So trackmute isn't really a 3rd kind of mute.

    Solo is simply the inverse of mute (solo means: mute everything else except me)

    ________________

    When you hit the "Analyze" button in Melodyne, it creates an invisible copy of the audio. You can't see it in Logic (or ProTools etc....). So all tweaks done in Melodyne are rendered to this invisible audio file, not the one one you're seeing in Logic. When you hit PLAY, you are really playing this invisible audio file. If you attempt to edit the audio region that you are seeing, you won't hear any difference because the audio that is really playing back is that invisible file. You'd have to re-analyze the audio in Melodyne (then you lose your Melodyne tweaks), or bypass Melodyne to hear what you see in the track.

    So it therefore makes sense that you also can't solo or mute a region on a Melodyne'd track and have it actually affect those regions that you are seeing on this track.


    ++++++++++++++++
    By the way, that's why the workflow for Melodyne'd tracks should always be that you do all "normal" region editing first, and then apply Melodyne. For example, get rid of nasty noises, do fades/crossfades, tweak timing, level match sections.... then apply Melodyne. In other words, make the track sound as good as necessary using conventional editing before you Melodyne it.

    By the way2, those Melodyne "invisible" render files are located on your hard drive in the Melodyne directory somewhere. A request since many years to Celemony has been the ability to save those render files in the directory of whatever project your working on (Logic's Project folder, ProTools' Session folder) so that the project becomes more portable and archivable without fishing around for those render files, or having to make a hardcopy of the Melodyne'd tracks which should be done ultimately anyway.
     
  5. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    > it therefore makes sense that you also can't solo or mute a
    > region on a Melodyne'd track and have it actually affect those
    > regions that you are seeing on this track.

    it does, thanks. But you haven't clarified why an Arrange Header mute doesn't silence the invisible audio, yet a channel strip mute does.

    This would suggest that there are THREE kinds of mute:
    1. region
    2. arrange track header
    3. channel strip

    > By the way, that's why the workflow for Melodyne'd tracks should always be [...]

    VERY interesting, thanks ! :)

    > A request since many years to Celemony has been the ability to save those render
    > files in the directory of whatever project your working on

    amazingly obvious, now you mention it. I hadn't got round to searching for those yet.

    > hardcopy of the Melodyne'd tracks .... should be done ultimately anyway

    again, an obvious conclusion that I hadn't quite got round to :)
     
  6. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    Arrange Track Header Mute/Solo is either:
    1) exactly the same as ChannelStrip Mute/Solo
    . or .
    2) exactly the same as Region Mute/Solo (for all regions in the track)

    There is a preference in Logic which dictates which way it will behave. I forget what it's exactly called, but "ChannelStrip mode" is called "Fast" and "Region Mute mode" is called "Slow".

    If you Mute or Solo a REGION on a Melodyne'd track, you will be fooled because the regions you see (and can apparently edit) are not really the regions that are truly active (it's that invisible audio file in the background that Melodyne is really playing back).

    Remember: Solo means "mute everything else".

    So if you use Region Solo (or Track Solo if it's in "Slow" mode which really solos all regions in the track and mutes every other region), then you won't really be muting the true Melodyne audio since it's invisible and in the background untouchable by Logic.
     
  7. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

     
  8. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    You don't choose one mode over another because of slow vs. fast. That's just a byproduct of their implementation.

    When you mute/solo REGIONS, the sonic result happens slowly. That's because you are actually removing items from the datastream, not much different than deleting them.

    When you mute/solo CHANNELSTRIPS the sonic result is instantaneous (fast). That's because the datastream doesn't change - all you are changing is "volume". The actual data (MIDI or audio) still flows, but at effectively infinitely quiet volume.
     
  9. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    wow thanks! I'll check it out. But again, while I can see the obvious advantages of muting/soloing individual regions ( which I assume works the same in either mode), what is the advantage of the 'slow' mode to mute whole tracks?
     

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