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Logic 9 Change overall volume on automated track

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Hansverm, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Hansverm

    Hansverm Member

    Hi,
    is there any way to change the overall volume on a automated track? For example. I draw some volume automation on a track and afterwards I decide that I'm happy with the automation , but I would like the volume of the whole track a few db's louder. In Pro Tools I was able to select the whole track or a selection and when I hoovered my mouse in the upper half of the track I got another tool with wich I could drag all the automation up or down. Is there a similar feature in Logic 9?

    Thanks
    hans
     
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  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Alt-click on an automation node selects all nodes after the click point. To move the whole line, alt-click on the first node. Then either move the first point or grab the line somewhere to move it.

    If you don't exactly know how many dBs you want, it may be a better idea to insert a Gain plugin as the last plugin in the channelstrip. If it is too coarse, you can get the Free-G from Sonalksis which is a wonderful alternative to the Gain plugin. And as its name implies, it is freeware.

    You can even automate such a plugin which comes handy when you want to do some moves without modifying the existing volume automation.
     
  4. Hansverm

    Hansverm Member

    Thanks Peter! Great advice on the Free-G. I'm downloading it now!
     
  5. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    For this very reason, I never automate volume. Instead I insert a gain plugin (must try Free-G) and automate that instead. That way I'm free to move faders when I mix.

    Also worth trying Gain Shaper, you draw automation roughly following the waveform shape, and it adjusts the gain in the opposite direction.
     
  6. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    I am not sure if the Free-G offers any advantage for that. Do you know if the Gain plugin has this coarse resolution also via automation? I can imagine that the automation uses more bits than the fader of the plugin.

    Having said this, I admit that I use the Free-G for fader riding, without knowing if it is better than the Gain plugin or not ;)

    However, we are moving away from the original question. For simple and minimal volume correction, you want the Gain or Free-G plugin as the last plugin in the strip. For manual or automated correction you rather want it as the first plugin to feed following EQ's and compressors with the right signal.
     
  7. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    That's an intriguing approach. Certainly convenient that the faders always remain "live" to the touch.

    A concern is the lack of undo for volume faders. If one moves a fader (or multiple ones) to try out some adjustments (or by accident!), one cannot use Undo to step back. With edits to volume automation, however, one can always Undo one's edits. (See relevant thread: http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231).

    Hence, I still use volume automation, and tend to insert an automation point even on tracks for which the volume stays the same throughout, to avoid any accidental changes.

    I use the Control-Click-Drag on the yellow automation meter in the Track Header to scale up and down all automation at once. I've been starting to use Gain plugs also. Might even just insert Gain plugs on all channel strips in the template.

    Cheers,
    mk3
     
  8. Hansverm

    Hansverm Member

    Peter: "For manual or automated correction you rather want it as the first plugin to feed following EQ's and compressors with the right signal. "

    This is indeed a very interesting approach. I really miss the undo function (like in Pro Tools) for the faders. I was just wondering, as I'm really a newbie to mixing music (Most of my work is post production + voice over work); If the gain plug is before your other plugins like compressors etc., I assume that you're driving them harder when you've programmed the gain to raise. Resulting in more compression when more gain. Also you're driving you're sends harder. Or am I missing anything? Unless this is something you want as an effect, I can see that's it's effects would not always be wanted?

    cheers
    hans
     
  9. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    This would be a bad idea unless it is a special effect. We talk about two different things at the same time. One thing is gain automation before everything else. I see it as a kind of sound correction and often as a creative technique because you work on the performance itself. I think Pete uses it in a similar manner. Then a gain plugin would be in the first slot. You may want an EQ in front but nothing else. After your fader riding or other automation the signal is different. Maybe you don't even need a compressor here because you did everything manually.

    The other thing is gain correction after everything is settled, which was your original question. Then you don't want to change the gain of the source but rather a method to adjust the gain without using the volume fader. You would put the gain plugin into the lowest slot.

    Another method for "channel gain": If you go to a bus with this channel, you can also use a send instead of the output and adjust the gain there.
     
  10. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I especially use Gain Shaper in this way, the end result is like riding a fader corresponding to the waveform, so the end result is similar to, but not the same as, compression.
     
  11. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    I can't use this plugin, it works definitely against my brain. Can you recommend any drugs to make that easier?
    :)
     
  12. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    Whoa! Tip of the month, maybe year!!!!

    Automation tends to be the surgical thing that can sometimes be done in isolation. Adjusting overall volume tends be the general thing you do on whims and in context of the whole mix. After automation, the entire track can be louder or quieter, but still the automation would be relevant and "correct". There are various ways to achieve this, but Pete's suggestion has got me thinking about changing my ways.....

    It would be nice if there was some kind of permanent gain control built inside every channelstrip. Essentially, it could be the Gain plugin's featureset but in a kind of permanent "slot" at the very end of the signal chain (where you'd want it to be).

    And then maybe a FLIP feature that would swap the Volume fader for Gain knob if if made more sense to view the gain parameter as big faders.
     
  13. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    Why not scale the automation using this approach if one is happy with the overall contour?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    if Logic had a proper Trim Automation feature (like ProTools HD), then I would definitely use it more often.

    Logic's graphic trim is only partially useful. For example, obviously you can't automate it.
     
  15. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    But you CAN automate the Gain plugin.
     
  16. timrob

    timrob New Member

    You just have to hold the Command key to make the change in this case.

    Best,

    Tim Roberts
     
  17. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I just tried to download this, it seems it's not freeware any more.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

  19. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I found that page, but the download link just goes to the normal download manger which says it's a 14 day trial, as in my attachment.
     
  20. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I spoke too quickly. :redface:
     
  21. Hansverm

    Hansverm Member

    It's still freeware, but you have to install a demo version of all their plugins along with the free plugin.
     

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