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Logic 8 compressor like EQ?

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by lowgic, Aug 9, 2009.

  1. lowgic

    lowgic New Member

    Is there anything I could use in L9 that would cut the high frequencies as my piano track gets louder? There are many times where I really punch a note and the compressor can catch the volume but it still sounds piercing. I'm thinking about an EQ that kicks in like a compressor to cut the highs at these points.

    Any ideas?
     
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  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

  4. michaelo

    michaelo LUG Emeritus

    You might try using Multipressor. It's not an eq but it will allow you to compress separate frequency bands.
     
  5. leytonnz

    leytonnz Senior member

    automate the channel EQ
    and +1 for dynamic eq with the multipressor
     
  6. paulnajar

    paulnajar Senior member

    Set up Logic's compressor using a HPF in the side chain. It's not hard once you understand the principal and it will do exactly what you want it to do and cost nothing - and respectfully to other people's suggestions in this thread for the Multipressor - it can potentially cause a lot more harm than good - particularly in inexperienced hands.

    If the data is midi and the VI supports it try playing with the velocity curves in the VI that suit stronger right hand playing.

    Finally if the piano performance is midi data then trying to use an audio processor to deal with this sort of thing is missing out completely on one of the huge benefits of working with midi. If the higher notes are played too hard for the piano sound you're triggering then try using Logic's transform window to scale back the velocities around a specified centre point where higher note numbers have their velocities reduced in a RELATIVE way. This would be my first choice of approach if it were midi data.

    Good luck.
     
  7. Petrosil

    Petrosil Member

    Good suggestion. And actually the Logic Compressor has a side chain filter section onboard in the extended parameter section. Just click on the disclosure triangle on bottom of the Compressor window.

    Best...

    Manfred
     
  8. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    But that compresses everything when the signal contains high frequencies. So far I understand the question was to soften the higher notes.
     
  9. lowgic

    lowgic New Member

    OK. Lots to experiment with here. There is surprisingly little documentation on the side chain filter. I played around with it last night. Need more time with it before I know if it will do the trick.

    It's an audio track. I played many high pitches really hard. Even when the volume was lowered they sounded piercing. I was trying to automate the EQ and started wondering if there was something that could do it automatically, like a compressor for EQ only.

    I will keep experimenting with the side chain, try out the multipressor and report back!
     
  10. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    In your case you would use a low pass filter in the internal side chain of the compressor. This means, if the side chain sees high frequencies, it tells the compressor to reduce the volume of the whole signal. I believe this is not what you want.

    Edit:
    As Paul points out in a later post, I made a mistake. You want a high pass filter, not a low pass filter (as I wrote). Sorry if this lead to confusion.


    But before you think of "automatic repair", check if the parts in question sound ok if you use an Equalizer. If you cannot tame the heights with a normal EQ, then automation or an automatic EQ won't help. Just use a standard EQ with a high shelve filter and listen if the piercing sound gets tamed or only dull.

    Can you post a short, raw sound example? I am sure some people here can help you when they hear how it sounds now.
     
  11. paulnajar

    paulnajar Senior member

    Peter Ostry wrote

    Peter this is the absolute opposite of what I was suggesting. An LPF in the side chain would make the compressor more sensitive to low frequencies. I would use a High Pass Filter HPF so in the side chain the compressor only reacts to what it sees - which in the case of setting a HPF to around 2KHZ or higher, it would only compress when larger amounts of high frequency energy was present in the audio.

    Precisely. That's the intention. Every time the louder high notes the original poster wants softened are struck the compressor kicks in to turn them down a little (soften). This is how a typical deesser work as well.

    Also in my original suggestion I was actually thinking of using the Compressors own side chain filters but I must not have made that very clear.

    Anyway, I also suggest that once you've reshaped the harmonic spectrum of the audio with some dynamic EQ (read frequency dependant compression) then add back some carefully chosen EQ to rebuild the frequency range that's been hardest hit by the dynamic processing.

    Kind regards
     
  12. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Oops sorry, my mistake. I did mean HPF.

    Well, a de-esser is allowed to turn everything down because a voice is monophonic. I think we cannot solve the problem unless we hear what's going on. If he plays only high notes, the normal compressor with an internal HPF will do just fine. But if he plays low keys with the other hand, it might sound funny when the whole volume goes down with the heights.

    Maybe there are some psychoacoustic phenomenes I don't know and a sidechained single band compressor would indeed work, but I rather think he looks for an automatic hand on the hi-shelve knob. That's why I pointed to Sonalksis software, their DQ1 does exactly that and, btw, allows a peak filter instead of the shelve in case this works better for the given sound:

    [​IMG]


    Mhm, I have no clue what the technical difference between a dynamic EQ and a multiband compressor is. Does anybody know the answer?
     
  13. paulnajar

    paulnajar Senior member

    Ok Cool. We're on the same plane then. Interesting that you see the voice as monophonic and then piano usually not. In the musical sense I agree, but in the sound sense they are just two ranges of frequencies.

    Using my suggested deesser type approach does have it's limits and there's a kind of averaging approach that I find works best. If it were a sibilant voice recording I was sorting out I'd start with a straight compressor before the side chained one and then after that there would definitely be EQ - so it's almost like re synthesising or re building a sound and it's never one process in isolation it's always several processes working together towards the one outcome.

    So I had a look at the DQ1. My take on the difference between a dynamic EQ and a multiband compressor goes like this. The MBC compresses the SAME frequency range that it's basing it's gain sensing on and has no choice to do otherwise. The DEQ is free to define the frequency range it's basing it's gain sensing on independently of the frequency rage it's applying its it's gain reduction to. In other words the DEQ is like multiple side chained mono band compressors. The MBC (or all the one's I've seen) are not this flexible.

    Agreed we can't really fix this guys problem for sure unless we hear the recording.

    Kind regards
     
  14. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry Paul, this English was too complicated for me. I didn't understand. Here is what the Sonalksis website shows:
    I think they basically say that the two do the same with the EQ beeing more gentle. And it is of course more flexible because you can go up and down for one band, depending on the signal level. The compressor/expander can just go up or down and is for the more usual multiband dynamics. Is that what you meant?

    I myself use rather the dynamic EQ, one example is noise reduction on instrument tails by automatically pulling a filter down with the downgoing signal level.
     

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