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Logic 9 does arpeggiator object octave select work in real time?

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Leon Horrocks, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Leon Horrocks

    Leon Horrocks New Member

    Bit of a wacky one here, I have just built an little thing in the environment to give me more controls over the arpeggiator object, I have wired a bunch of buttons into it to change all its modes, such as direction, resolution, length, snap to and octaves. It works fine except for one thing. If I hold down a chord and change any parameter as the notes are being arpeggiated they all work in real time except for octave, which seems to need a new note on, ie play the notes or chords again to switch its setting ie from 1 to 2 octaves. Bit frustrating as everything else works without having to do that. Any ideas as to why? Is this a limitation of the arpeggiator object? I bypassed my little button array an went direct from physical input>arp>seq input and it shows the same problem. :confused:
     
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  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Seems to be a matter of internal design.

    You could always feed 2 arpeggiators with your notes and controller data and switch between their outputs. Something like that:

    [​IMG]

    If you want more than two arpeggiators you can use multiple buttons or a fader and the switching matrix goes a bit more complicated.
     
  4. Leon Horrocks

    Leon Horrocks New Member

    Thanks Peter, I will try something like this as a workaround. Seems pretty odd that it doesn't work in a simple way though. I don't get why changing the Octave from say 1 to 2 in real time would require a new note on, while changing resolution from say 1/8 to 1/16 without a new note on works no problem. Unless its because its easier for the object to generate more notes than generate different notes?
     
  5. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    If it isn't a bug it would need improvement. However, we cannot expect that anything will change for these old environment tools so we are bound to workarounds. Maybe you find a good plugin-based arpeggiator instead, I don't know if one exists.
     
  6. Leon Horrocks

    Leon Horrocks New Member

    Yeah it's a surprising bug/design choice I guess, but I can live with it. I can also use my JP-8000 arpeggiator anyway, but I though I'd try to get more out of Logics internal one. Every now and then I get interested to build some more tools in the environment and this was one of them! Funnily enough the one apple made in their Electronic template works the way you suggested, lots of different arps that can all be switched at different times to get different Arp fx, so maybe it's not so bad.
     
  7. bobdemaa

    bobdemaa Senior member

    Funny, I was just building something similar the other day. I've been going through Len Sasso's old Guide to Logics Environment. It's still incredibly relevant given it's age. A great thing about Logic IMO.

    I wonder if there's a way to get the notes your playing to retrigger automatically when you select the Octave?

    I've been building Fader environments so that I can use the Euphonix Artist controllers as MIDI controllers. I'm building one now where the Faders of the surface change the Arpegiator controls. I'll post up the environment when I'm done if anyone is interested.

    bd
     
  8. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Just tried it, does not work. Probably caused by another bug in the arpeggiator: If you hold a chord and reduce the octave range, the arpeggiator stops playing.

    This seems to be a problem with retriggering too. If you expand the octave and retrigger, it works. Not if the octave range gets reduced, this does nothing. Sending note-offs for the held notes is no solution because a) this is audible and b) the old notes hang, most likely because of an internal note storage of the arpeggiator. (Logic 9.0.2)

    Multiple arpeggiators are they way to go and a huge playground. You can switch them, blend them via MIDI or different instrument channelstrips, you can construct patterns with parallel arpeggiators, even try to use them serial or combine them with chord memorizers.

    Just do not get too fancy, one of the next Logic updates may render your state-of-the-art arpeggio system useless. Such things happened again and again in the past and are the cause why most people who more ore less "lived" in the Logic environment stopped using it for sophisticated patches.
     
  9. bobdemaa

    bobdemaa Senior member

    Thanks, and Great ideas too. I'm going to play around with em on the train ride back to LA tomorrow.

    bd
     
  10. Leon Horrocks

    Leon Horrocks New Member

    bobdemaa: Yeah I have been delving into the environment and digging up old little things and trying them. Some are fun, but honestly after I wired in a drum machine a few minutes ago I realised some of these old tools aren't needed that much now (in this case because ultrabeat has taken care of all that). Maybe that's what happened with the Environment. Since computers got faster and audio and software synths being so integrated you just don't need some of this stuff as much as before. I've been running Logic since 2002 and have delved in a few times, mainly to setup all the multi instruments, but generally got things I wanted to do done without using much of it (aside from setting it up to perform live sort of like what we do in Mainstage now, which was fun, and writing a track with the USS once.) That said, it's still cool. I'm finding building things for other ways to control software synths is interested and useful. There are several examples of people doing this on Youtube. I have made a simple vector setup recently that I can use my TG33's vector ball with which is cool and some other stuff such as pads to trigger sounds and FX.:thmbup:

    Peter: Yeah the weird behaviour you describe is what I found when I switched octave with my buttons and played new notes to try to get it recognise the new setting. It was all over the shop. If it consistently moved to the new octave setting after the new note ons it probably wouldn't be such a big deal. Also I swear at times it was falling out of sync as well, regardless of my snap to setting. This whole Arp being buggy thing this is really boring. :brkwl: I mean I know there are work arounds and using multiple ones can open up massive possibilities but its a pity we can't get ONE arp to work consistently. I wonder if it's a new 9.0.2 bug? All I wanted was to control the arp settings easily in realtime a la hardware and it doesn't work properly. Oh well. I will try to build a multi one though, or steal apples one that I mentioned earlier. Thanks for your ideas though, much appreciated. :) It's worth trying these things I guess as I am learning more all the time.
     
  11. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Is there no good Arpeggiator available as an automatable plugin? It should send MIDI out to a selectable port, then you could trigger any instrument.
     
  12. Leon Horrocks

    Leon Horrocks New Member

    I don't know. I guess some softsynths must have one that can output its Arp notes. I tried my Jupiter 8v which has one but cunningly it seems NONE of its arpeggiator settings can be automated except for rate, unless I'm missing something. In fact with a monitor hooked up it seems only the faders on its panel transmit fader messages. Very few of the switches and buttons do. The Arpeggiator itself doesn't transmit the notes it is generating and none of the button settings for the arp transmit fader messages. I tried a demo of the FM8 which has an arp too, and it doesn't output the notes it makes either. It's all just too hard! LOL.
     

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