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Logic 9 Extremely well-documented vid of more L9 bugs

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by alienimplant, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Apart from the fact that I do not understand half of what he is saying, what sense does it make to put 12 transient markers along a sustained wave, make it stuttering and cry that it does not swing properly?

    I am definitely not a power user when it comes to Flex, but I use it to correct a syllable here and then or an early tone and am fully satisfied. I can correct rhythmic failures of instruments and change the expression of sung text slightly. And for quantizing, I though Flex is made to line up well defined events like pizzicato or drums. Is this not enough?

    I feel a little confused when I see someone doing meaningless things to the given musical material, just to prove that there are bugs in a software. But maybe I don't understand the explanations in this video well enough.
  4. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I think part of the point is to demonstrate that there are many holes in the ship's hull. Sure the basic stuff works, and the author agrees with you. But he, like me, does a lot of unorthodox things to audio for modern club music. It isn't fun, when you are pushing the limits of Logic, to walk into a digital abyss. The moral of the story is that these features, amazing in what they do correctly, are not completely thought out. I am running into a plethora of bugs in L9, moreso than in any other version. I agree that it's great, but it's still full of holes. I think this author and I both like Logic 9 a lot. But it definitely feels like a beta project. I suppose one could argue that it beats waiting another 6 months for a more refined Logic 9. But if we all keep our mouths shut about what is going berserk in Logic, our next Logic update will not be as comprehensive as it should. We ALL need to be thorough and outspoken in how this program needs to advance. Or we will be at the mercy of changes that are sometimes incongruent with our urgent needs.

    I think we all should be a bit alarmed at how the audio was simply dropping out on the flex-enabled tracks, even if we ignore the advanced tricks the author was doing later on. That is a serious core-function bug.
  5. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Believe me, you aren't missing much in terms of enlightening use of the english language :rolleyes:.

    Honestly, I gave up watching those videos after a few minutes. I would rather spend the time more constructively with the Logic 9 documentation, there is a lot to learn ;)

    Indeed - in any case, there are other ways to create stuttering effects in Logic. Flex seems to me to be there for other, extremely important functions which it executes remarkably well in my experience.

    kind regards

  6. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

  7. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Haha, nice. Well, if you ever run into any Flex time errors, you may find this particular video in the series helpful. It explains how to recover when Flex bugs emerge that you can't otherwise recover from. Good to know, in my opinion.


    Skip in 3 minutes if you are short on time.
  8. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    I started to look at the Flex videos he made. I gave up pretty soon, but see that in spite of the unfortunately rather long-winded moaning, there's stuff that can be improved in Logic's Flex engine.
    With all due respect, it looks more like a number of way-too-long clips, made by one who hasn't read the manual, on a un-supported Mac, trying to show how Flex behaves if you want to use Flex for something else than what it probably was primarily intended for. :) He does seem to document bugs as well, but wouldn't a short description of a bug make it more likely that someone from Apple would read and try to recreate this than spreading his feedback over all these videos? I don't know...

    I'm basically all for not having to be dependent on manuals, but some of the stuff in this videos seems like perfect examples of situations where spend a little with trying to understand how new, complex feature is intended to work would make sense.

    Nevertheless - I sometimes hear unexpected pops and 'quantizations' when using Flex as well. I'm not totally shocked - after all, this is the first version of Flex, but it does seem like Logic needs a way to force itself to totally ignore non-relevant transient markers that aren't relevant when quantizing.
  9. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I can tell by another of the clips that some of the narrator's frustration is caused by the fact that he's expecting the vocal track to quantize the way he wants. I have a theory it is due to the fact that there is very little cadence in his transients. He comes up with an ingenious workaround for this, but I believe that functionality is already working the way it is supposed to.

    Strangely, no one else seems to be bothered by the fact that, when he inserts markers in the sampler edit window, the arrange windows throws itself into a weird screen akin to a folder that really isn't a folder. This is a horrendous bug. Furthermore, much of what this guy is trying to do IS partially what the software is designed to do. It's clear developers had many of these methods in mind, even if people ignore their presence. Swing quantization of a vocal track, for example, isn't that far fetched a scenario, in my opinion.

    He is long-winded. I'll give you that. ;)
  10. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    "Go away cat! I'm doing a video!"
  11. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Give the gent some credit for putting in the effort. I haven't watched through all of them, but there's some useful info there, and at least he speaks a variant of English which I can understand.

  12. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    He's not much of an editor, I'm afraid. LOL
  13. ignatius

    ignatius New Member

    those are useful videos and i like the casual manor. i think his criticisms are valid in respect to the bugs. i've seen most of those mentioned in threads on gearslutz from people running intel machines so i know the PPC mac has nothing to do with it.

    also know a guy who beta tested and when 9 was announced he promised me "don't worry it will work on your G5" so i think it was run through its paces on many G5's during beta. seems odd that the bugs people are complaining about made it through the process. maybe some blame falls on the beta testers too?

    hopefully they'll come out w/an update sooner or later to solve some of these issues.

    that being said.. there are a million ways to achieve stutter effects though having it easily accessible using the method he was trying to use would be cool.. especially for people who make more experimental music or do sound design etc. anything that speeds work flow is welcome.
  14. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Here is a Flex video which, compared with others on the 'net, is made by someone who clearly did not jump in precipitously without taking the time to learn about the very deep functionality of flex, and in this and many other ways, shows that he knows exactly what he is doing, none other than "our own" Eli:


    kind regards

  15. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hey Mark,

    Thanks for the kudos! I'm glad you like it. For anyone who is interested, I'm currently working on a full series specifically on flex editing for Groove3.com. They should be available within a few weeks.

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