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Logic 9 Flexing Editing Drums

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by afavreau, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member


    I have some questions about on how to quantize drums in Logic 9.

    1-Should transiant markers be editied (on tracks that will be used as Quantizing reference) before Quantizing Drums?

    2-Is it possible to only use part of a track as quantizing reference?

    For instance, in the beginning, my drummer only plays the ride on quarter notes, however, he plays mostly on the Hi-Hats (instead of the ride) for the rest of the track. I would like to switch between the Hi-Hat and Ride as quantizing reference because I don't want the bleed to influence the quantizing when a part is not playing (a specific mic was used for a ride). Is this possible?

    3-I'm a bit confused. The dark lines are Quantzing reference lines and the pale one are transiant markers? Or is it the other way around?

    4-Are quantizing reference lines always on transiant markers? If so, then what happens if the Snare and Base drum fall on the same beat, but are only slightly off, which one will it choose?

    Thanks for your help

    Andre Favreau
  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Andre,

    1. Yes! Edit the transient markers on the Q Reference tracks before applying quantization in the Arrange Window.

    2. Absolutely. Once a track has had it's transient analysis done, you can simply cut in the Arrange Window, and then exclude specific regions by disabling the Flex check box in the region parameter box for those particular regions. Flex is "track based" but a lot of people overlook the fact that you can easily include/exclude specific regions after the fact.

    3. Once you've applied a quantization value, the solid lines that are created are the quantize reference lines. The lighter non-solid looking lines that are created after the initial analysis is called the transient detection grid.

    4. You can edit the transient markers in the sample edit window to make sure they are falling where you want them to be on the Q Reference track. If the snare and kik are slightly off, they will be quantized based on whichever you are using as the Q Reference track. You could use both - they will both get corrected and snapped to the grip when you apply quantization.
  4. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Wow! Thanks for your clear answers Eli.

    Last question then about #2.

    If I exclude some regions of a Q-reference track with the Flex Check Box, will I still be able to quantize those regions? Because I would like to quantize those leaks of course.

    Thanks again

    Andre Favreau
  5. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    You must remember to turn the phaselocked option on and lock the drumtracks together in a group.
    What is also important is that you have to bounce the tracks so they all start at the same spot. If you use the new "bounce all tracks" function they will all start at bar one and it's very fast. Make sure that the beginning of the tracks are right on the bar ie 1/1/1. Otherwise the quantize function will not move them to the exact right value.
    If you don't want a track to have partly influence on the quantization you will have to manually edit out the transients markers on the places where you don't want anything to happen. It's very simple and works very, very well. When editing the transients turn of the Flex or you will have to wait for the fade files to update everytime you change something.
    In most cases it's better to use a smaller Q value like maybe 1/4 or smaller. Also the expanded parameters are of importance so play around with them and everything else until all artificial sounds have disappeared.
    I recently used this for the first time too (as did everybody else since it's a new feature) and there's a 2-3 weeks old thread that's pretty detailed about this.
  6. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Thanks HKC

    1-Are you saying that the phase lock setting alone in the grouping feature will assure that every track and region is quantize even if some regions are opt out with Flex option?

    2-Do I really have to bounce and start at absolute 1/1/1 or just make sure that trimmed regions all start and end exactly at the same bar?

    3-Yes, I could delete unnecessary transiant markers, but if I understand Eli correctly, I can just opt out of some regions, right?


  7. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    1. You can only phase lock regions that have equal startpoints. When tracks are grouped the all do the same so when selecting "slicing" on one track it will create markers on all the grouped tracks. It's not important though because you can just choose only selected tracks to be quantize masters by selecting the Q in the track header.

    2. You have to make sure that it starts a a whole bar, otherwise the quantize function gets confused. It happens with midi too.

    3. Hmm I'm not sure how to leave out certain regions when phaselocking them. It's the track header that decides whether the tracks transints are used or not. From what I understood you had a part where you wanted the ride cymbal to be master and the rest to be quantized by the hihat. I think this is only possible by either deleting the transients or making a complely new track that is escpecially created for transients.

    Why don't you use the transients from the overheads, they should cover the entire kit pretty well. One problem there could be with using anything but close miced things for quantizing could be the speed of sound though. The overhead mics will catch the signal a little later than the close miced drum so quanticing using the kick and snare will probably get you closer to the values that you know from midi. It doesn't take long to erase all the unnecessary transients. There´s a key command that let's you increase or decrease the number of markers and you can just run the song with the sample editor open and with the eraser chosen.
  8. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Yes, you need to have the grouped tracks phase locked and they must all start/end at the same position for the flex algorithms to be calculated correctly.

    But once all this is done, yes, you can cut regions to isolate them in order to disable flex mode for specific sections in the region parameters. Just make sure any cutting of regions you do in the Arrange Window is in the context of a phase locked grouped set of tracks.
  9. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Thanks for your help! It works pretty well!
  10. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    Eli wrote: yes, you can cut regions to isolate them in order to disable flex mode for specific sections in the region parameters. Just make sure any cutting of regions you do in the Arrange Window is in the context of a phase locked grouped set of tracks.

    Hmm but where do you cut, at the corrected value or at the place where the beat actually is. It's not that simple. If you take something out of quantization how do you get back again unless you're lucky and it magically fits.
    A scenario could be a bar that contains a drum fill that starts at 11/4/232 and ends at 12/4/215 (the drummer pushing the tempo a little, not unusual around here). If you want to keep the feel of the fill your new 1 will be /4/215 which gives you a gap of 25 ticks. In this case I think you will have to do a little beatmapping along with the flexing to make the end and start meet.
  11. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    I'll let Eli reply to this one...

  12. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Simple answer is: You cut wherever you need to. The idea of carving out regions to disable flex on them is that you _don't_ want quantization applied to these specific little bits. You _want_ to keep the feel of what's played and _not_ correct it.

    So, cut where your fill starts, then cut again where it ends; disable flex, and leave it alone!

    If you do want to quantize it, but just differently, then go in and play with the transient detection grid manually in the sample editor.
  13. afavreau

    afavreau Senior member

    Yes it works. I tried it.

    I find that it works well to cut in the middle of a bar, just before 2nd, 3rd or 4th beat.


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