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Logic 8 GPO4 hangs in Logic Pro 8

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by Nightingale, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    I recently bought GPO4 with the Aria player, and have enabled all my tracks in one songs to play back through the Aria player. I'm writing for string orchestra, with one Audio track for the singer, and about 16 software tracks for the orchestra.. I have two tracks for each string player (ie, 2 for 1st violin, 2 for 2nd etc) each playing through a different Midi channel whenever possible. For each string player, one of the tracks is with an ensemble, the other with a soloist - this arrangement can give a realistic sound which I am pleased with.
    However, almost every time I start playback from anywhere other than the beginning, one or more tracks start to hang. The resulting cacophony has to be heard to be believed: but it's not funny after a while. You have to stop playback, and immediately start again -sometimes, not always, this fixes it, at least for a few bars. Starting from the beginning can also produce this problem, though not as frequently.
    This problem is so bad, that I'm thinking GPO4 is unusable in Logic. But surely this can't be so, or there would be umpteen complaints in the forum. I can't find any!
    I'm not at all technical, so if anyone out there is kind enough to help, I will be happy to provide any information that is needed.
    I'm running a 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad core intel Zeon Mac, with 8 GB of RAM and a 300GB hard drive.
  3. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I can confirm that GPO 4 with the Aria player works very well with Logic 8 on my system -- which has only a fraction of the computing power of yours. I'd start by looking at the buffer sizes -- if they are too low, you will get very low latency but possibly overload the processor. Try increasing it and see what happens. You didn't say how many tracks or voices you are using in GPO. With your system, you should be able to use a lot, but there is still a limit. You could try removing some of them and see if the problem stops.
  4. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Thank you, Bayswater, for your comments. I have been dimly aware of buffer sizes for some time, and had already tried altering them. However, not being over-confident, I have just tried again, going into Audio>Devices, and altering the I/O Buffer size. I think the default was 256, so I have altered it down to 64, in stages, and then up to the highest setting, again in stages. I have not noticed any difference I'm afraid - still get the hanging, especially when starting midway. I have also tried altering the Process Buffer Range, from Medium, to High. (I don't think I've tried the low)..

    How many tracks? ........12. Not lot ! I am not certain, but I think this trouble started after adding solo instruments to each "section" - by section, I mean for example the 1st Violin section. I may have to delete all these in a separate copy of the song, just to be sure. Oh, and I've also tried to replicate the problem in another composition, changing all the string parts to Aria (from Kontakt Player). Initially, no hanging, but I soon got it after converting about 2 or 3 string parts to Aria. So this might suggest the problem is not related to any corruption on the one song. It's going to be a problem on anything I write!

    This couldn't be anything to do,with the way in which I load the instruments, could it? My technique is to select the instrument in the arrange window,click and hold on the I/0, select AU Instruments>Garitan>Aria Player>Stereo;and then from there select whatever instrument I want. I do this for every instrument. Something I've read puzzles me slightly, and makes me wonder if this is right - something about loading "several instances of the Aria Player" Is this what I have been doing?

    Thank you so much for your time -it is much appreciated. I hope very much for a successful outcome.

    Best wishes
  5. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    So, no, buffers are not your problem. And I think I have more than 12 tracks going right now on my ancient G5.

    Not entirely sure what is happening from your description, but is it possible you have the system running 12 instances of the Aria player, rather than one instance with different tracks using different MIDI channels? I normally use DP for most projects, so I'm a little hazy on how Logic deals with this problem. Maybe some more experienced with routing in Logic can jump in?
  6. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Thank you again.Yes I should think it's perfectly possible that I have 12 instances of Aria. I have just had a quick meddle with the Arrange window, and found that it is possible to have 16 instruments showing in one Aria window, instead of having (in my case) 12 separate Aria windows, each with only one instrument! I can imagine more experienced users will now be groaning, wondering why on Earth I didn't do it this way to begin with. That is of course, if this is indeed the way I should be doing it. I'll leave further experimentation for now, but tomorrow I'll get back to it. It looks like a very promising line of enquiry, because having 12 instances of Aria would surely demand much more CPU/memory/or whatever.
    Meanwhile, i thank you again for your support and interest.
    Best wishes
  7. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    I'm afraid I've made only limited progress. The good news: I do seem to have cured the hanging problem. The bad news: I'm not sure how I did it! I'll try to recap.the steps taken:

    1. I created 12 software tracks, underneath the existing ones, described above..
    2.Set each of them to Aria, using the I/O in the Inspector;
    3.Loaded my instruments ALL INTO ONE ARIA "WINDOW", and allocated each instrument to a different Midi channel, taking care to alter the channel number n the Inspector at the same time.
    4. Dragged the pre-existing Midi regions from the old tracks above the new tracks, into the new tracks. eg. my 1st violin midi region is dragged into the newly-made empty track below, and so on with all the other instrument regions.
    In the end I managed to get sound, but I had to use the I/O box to reload Aria to each and every track.

    TODAY, I HAVE CREATED A NEW PROJECT, AND HAD ANOTHER GO. My aim is to learn how to create ONE INSTANCE of Aria player, containing 16 or so instruments, each on a different Midi channel. PLEASE would someone tell me how to do this? I'm growing despondent with what I feel is very little success, despite great effort and a lot of reading and research! Surely this can't be that difficult to do?
  8. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I've always been confused about how the signal paths in Logic are routed. It's something I'm trying to work through, but until I do, I don't think I can offer any useful comments. I'm really hoping this doesn't drag me back to the Environment, which is where I've parted company with Logic in previous versions.
  9. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    The Environment: oh God, no, I'm not in to that at all! Had a look, but backed away very quickly!

    You help has been useful - I no longer have the hanging. The pity is that I don't really understand why.

    This is the first time I have taken part in a forum - it's been a good experience, thanks to you, and I'll certainly do so again, even if nobody can in the end FULLY sort out the current problem.

    One of the things which impresses and at the same time puzzles me, is how so many people seem to know and understand so much, when the available literature is SO difficult (and often VERY LENGTHY) to grasp. the Garritan website is supposed (by their reckoning at least) to be very good, but I find it almost useless. Their manual, that came with GPO4, is much too brief, without clear instructions of the sort that I am not looking for.

    So thanks again, and if you or anyone else out there can further assist, I would be delighted.

    Kind regards
  10. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I can sympathize. Over the past 25 years, I've used just about every sequencer going, and Logic is the one I've been least able to "get". Right now, I'm having problems with the main audio output just quitting. If I blunder around, I can get it to resume, but can't see how.

    IMO, Logic always had a big initial learning curve, almost a rite of passage, made worse in the past when using the Environment was essential to getting sound. But it has also made a lot things a simpler to use and more powerful, so there is a trade off you have to make.

    As for instruments like GPO/Aria, if you look at other instruments you will likely see patterns in how they all work that will help. I think Logic obscures the signal path for VIs, so looking at how they work in other sequencers also helps to understand how they can be set up.

    GPO 4 in particular seems easier to use than the previous versions that used the NI player, and that might be what you are hearing people say. Have you looked at GPO forums for some hints?
  11. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Yes, I have spent a lot of time with the GPO Forum. I find it difficult to navigate around, but assuming I'm doing what I should be, the impression I have is that very few people are actually writing in, or contributing.I have also been unable to find out anything very much regarding GPO4 and Logic, which I find almost unbelievable. It makes you wonder if Logic is the right programme - may be there is a better one, though the best known,(to me anyway), Cubase, seems always to have plenty of problems, judging by the number of questions that appear quite regularly. One thing about it though, my grown-up son (who lives in Manchester) uses Cubase himself, so I'd have someone to liaise with! You may have noticed that I live in mid Wales, so it is difficult (impossible actually!) to make contact and chat with other Logic users, as might be possible if I lived in a city.
  12. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    I don't have Logic in front of me, but there is a quick way to create new midi tracks for an already instantiated software instrument. After you have created GPO and assigned an instrument (violin, whatever), go to the local "Track" menu--locate between the Edit and Region local menu, and choose "New with next midi channel." Now within GPO you'll need to assign the next violin to midi channel 2. But this way you're not rootin' around the Environment. Given what you're trying to do there should be no need for that, anyway.

    I'm not sure what system you're running, but Aria has had some problems with Snow Leopard. Pogue (the developer) has a patch available which has helped some people. You can find info about that on the GPO forum.

  13. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Thank you Jim!

    Thank you Jim. I'll try out your suggestion later today and post a further reply then.
    And while I think of it, yes I am running snow leopard.
  14. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Well thank you again Jim for your very clear description of how to load several instruments in one instance of Aria Player. It works superbly. Unfortunately however, I still get the hanging problem - it seems to be worse as I add further instruments. This is disappointing. But what about this patch from Pogue? I think I'd like to follow this up, but had had no success so far in tracing any reference to it. If you could guide me in the right direction (The Logic forum is quite new to me, and I'm not sure I know how to trace earlier references/discussions).

    A couple of minor points: when I select SOLO on one of the instruments, SOLO automatically gets selected on the two adjacent ones. Why? Secondly, I seem to have somehow produced a duplication of all my tracks, which appear at the end - they are a darker colour than the original tracks, and are out of sequence with each other. I can't find a way of getting rid of them!

    Further guidance would be very much appreciated. Thank you again for help so far given.

    Best wishes
  15. stv_collins

    stv_collins New Member

    This may be the GPO forum thread Jim is referring to: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69529
    They refer to a beta patch made available (only in response to an email request) early last year that seems to have helped some people with a hanging note problem.

    I have GPO4 myself; haven't had any problems, but I haven't used it much - I just tested functionality on my new machine.

    hope this helps
  16. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    Steve has pointed you to the patch I was referencing. Hopefully that will help you out. It seems to have fixed things for some users on the Garritan forum.

    I'm unclear on your other two questions. What do you mean by "selecting solo"? Within GPO or Logic? Same thing with the "duplication of tracks" problem. That's within Logic, not GPO, right? Perhaps you could take a screenshot of each situation so we could see it.

  17. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    For Jim !!

    Thanks for your continued interest -very kind.

    I have sent a message to your suggested contact, and hope to hear from him soon.

    As for the two other problems, I'm sorry not to have made myself clearer - using the right terminology is not something I find easy!

    I'm referring to things in Logic. Each instrument has a solo button, labelled "s" on the left side of the screen, so that you can solo any instrument you want to the exclusion of all others. It's that "solo" button I was referring to!
    As for the other issue- the repeated sections, think the phrase I should be using is "midi regions". To take one instrument as an example, by violin part is represented as one fairly long midi region. But this region has no not one, but two extra copies following on at the end, darker green than the first one.So when I get to the end of listening to the piece, it starts all over again! If I select one of these repeated units, with the intention of deleting it, I can't do that, because clicking on one unit selects all of them in that track.

    Sorry to be so lengthy - if I knew how to describe this, it would be a lot simpler, I know. Very frustrating.......

    Of course I have the manual, but knowing where to look..........

    Thanks again for your help.


  18. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    With the solo button, it could be that if the original track was soloed, any subsequent tracks you create may take their cue from that track. That's just a guess though.

    As to the "extra" copies of the midi region, my guess is that the "loop" box is checked. On the left-hand side of the arrange page, look in the upper left. (Be sure the Inspector is visible--click the Inspector button if it isn't.) You may have to click some disclosure triangles, but you'll eventually see "Loop" with a box to its right. Uncheck that box and the offending regions should disappear. At least that's my guess as to the problem and the solution. Believe me, there are far more knowledgeable people on this forum than I. Perhaps one of them will chime in to offer a more informed response.

  19. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    For Jim re. hanging

    Hi Jim

    Thank you for your erudite reply. Not only was it crystal clear, it also proved to be absolutely on the nail. Somehow LOOPS had been ticked on every track - no idea how!

    As for your guesswork on the "solo" business - I can only describe that as inspirational! Of course, if you create a track with the same settings, and that track has the solo selected, the new track will also have solo selected. So obvious when you say it, but I'm not sure that I would have thought of that.

    So now I await instructions from the developers of Aria, hopefully with offers of a patch that will fix the hanging problem.

    Meanwhile, I thank you again, along with the others who have helped.

    Best wishes
  20. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    Happy to help, Jeremy. I hope the Aria patch works out for you.

  21. Nightingale

    Nightingale New Member

    Pogue, the developers of Aria, have sent me the patch, and it was installed with astonishing ease. Even more astonishing, it actually works! Not only that, but I can now load 16 instruments in one instance of Aria player. Excellent! Thank you Steve, but especially Jim for sticking with me and being such a help. If I have further problems, which is extremely likely, I hope to hear from you again. Meanwhile, happy music-making!
    Best wishes

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