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Logic 8 How do I connect a godin multiac nylon sa

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by jif, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. jif

    jif New Member

    I would like to record midi input from my Godin Multiac Nylon SA guitar using the non-USB Edirol FA-66 firewire audio device. I have a Roland GR-33 synth and Logic 8 running on an Intel Core 2 Duo iMac. My only experience of the FA-66 was a few years ago when I used it with a midi keyboard but I've never been able to successfully set up this kit with the Godin. I guess I only need the GR-33 as an interface sinec I should be able to use the sounds provided by Logic 8. So if you have configured a set up like mine I'd be very grateful to hear how you made it work.
     
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  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    You need the GR-33 to convert the 6-string analog signal of the 13-pin cable to a MIDI stream over a standard MIDI connection. Means, your 13-pin cable goes to the GR-33 and the MIDI output of the GR-33 goes to a MIDI interface and finally to the computer. You can use any MIDI interface, be it standalone or integrated in an audio interface.
     
  4. jif

    jif New Member

    Thanks

    Thanks for the information. As it happens I just tried something which worked and bypassed the FA-66. I just used the GR-33 and an M-Audio mid-to-USB connector, rebooted and when I launched Logic 8 it worked. However, I can see that latency, or whatever, makes the process of accurately recording all the notes played virtually impossible. I also tried Guitar Pro 6, and although that also worked (probably better than Logic) the same limitations apply. I will try again but suspect the problem is a permanent one.
     
  5. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    It depends where the signal gets delayed. Is the GR-33 a slow or a fast converter? Is the MIDI interface slow or fast? Both, the converter and the MIDI interface are responsible for the time from picking the string to recording the note. For example: I felt a remarkable difference between my old Roland GR-20 through a Motu MIDI Express and the Axon 100 through an Emagic AMT-8 I use now.

    And there is the plugin delay. All plugins need processing time, some more, some less. Now think about the whole chain. Audi-to-MIDI conversion in the guitar converter (time), MIDI transfer (time). Entering the computer and Logic (time), processing the sound (time), sending the sound out from Logic through the computer through the audio interface to your speakers or headphones. Everything needs a little time and under bad conditions and depending on your playing you may run into an unplayable situation.

    And there is more: Deep tones are harder to convert than high tones. The wave length is longer at deep frequencies and this results in longer processing time in the converter. To avoid this you can play one octave higher and set the softsynth one octave lower but apart from another string sound this is just an example, you have to optimize your chain in every stage.

    From my experience and with the gear I know it is hard to play exactly in time with a guitar-to-MIDI converter and software instruments. The more you are able to play a little before the real time, the more precise the recording is. But it will never be as accurate as hearing the sound from the guitar directly. I am quite used to that kind of playing but I always feel like wading through honey and can't get the right feeling.

    One solution is some kind of direct monitoring. Play through an amp or preamp in parallel or use (probably split) the audio signal after the converter if this is possible. Then you hear the guitar in realtime and this is what you need. Especially if you are playing along a playback track. The recorded notes might be late because of a slow MIDI chain, you can correct them after the recording. If you play live, this is no option of course.

    I had this problem and decided do add always a little direct sound and I use hardware for the main sound in most situations. Only the effects are done by the computer and they may be a little late, I don't care about. A short delay can even make your tone fuller.

    If you absolutely want to use software, there is no other chance than using the best components you can afford throughout the whole chain and the less CPU-hungry plugins you can get. Good guitar, really fast converter and interface and computer and the "modern way" is almost possible. For me not more than almost.
     
  6. jif

    jif New Member

    Thanks once again for your help. Such a pity there is no way for Logic to "grab" notes from guitars as it does keyboards. I realise there are more considerations to process notes played on the guitar however it would make sense to me for some element along the way, between guitar and software, for all the nuances to be stripped from notes before they are captured, even if the display is delayed as a result. Perhaps newer equipment does this, I have no idea, and since I don't plan on investing in any more hardware I guess I will never know. But before I quit I think I may have another try with Guitar Pro 6 which, as I mentioned, did seem to do a better job of capturing notes than Logic 8. I also wonder how Sibelius compares in this regard.
     
  7. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    When you concentrate on recording MIDI don't expect great help from the software. The computer receives plain MIDI but more events than from a keyboard. Maybe there are differences how software interprets and writes the notes but the main part is the converter, where the translation from audio to MIDI happens.

    The second part is your playing. Your guitar is good but you have to play extremely clean otherwise the converter will see a lot of artefacts and try to interpret them. These artefacts are translated to very short notes and/or wrong pitchbend information or may cause wrong timing. However, editing such a recording is normal and can be a lot of work.

    If you do not need pitchbend events, turn them off if possible or filter them in the Logic environment. A good converter sends almost continuous streams of pitchbend events for each string. Without pitchbend you cannot record vibratos but if you finally play software synths they may not be needed anyway. You don't need them if you just want the score.
     
  8. jif

    jif New Member

    Your comments have encouraged me to go through all the parameters, both hardware synth and s/w Logic to "strip out" anything not required, plus I also worked on string sensitivity. All in all this has improved the recordability a great deal so the next time I work on an arrangement, which for various reasons won't be for a while yet, I will try working it through Logic and see how I get on. Many thanks once again.
     
  9. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

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