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Logic 8 How to split the keyboard...?

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by toddthing2, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    ...sending, say, everything below middle C to a bass track and everything above to a piano track.

    I imagine the environment is part of the answer (assuming this is possible to do—it HAS to be possible, right?!?) but I don't see where to even start.

    Granted I've never successfully used the environment.

    thanks,
    toddthing

    BONUS question; can the split areas be independently octave transposed?

    2.66 iMac
    Logic 8.0.2
    Edirol PCR-800 midi keyboard
     
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  3. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    This is quite simple, but if you don't want to use the environment, and this part of it is (surprisingly) articulately discussed in the manual I think, I would have thought most MIDI controllers would o this at source, so just send different channels above and below the split. Apologies if I'm talking rubbish and this isn't a feature of keyboards these days.

    EDIT: I imagine you'll get a better answer very soon....
     
  4. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    please! excuse my ignorance... to this point I've primarily been an acoustic musician using logic to record audio and simple midi tracks.

    I'd like to solve this issue in logic because I want this set up to work on different systems.

    So where in the environment do I look? (channel splitter? I wish it were more obvious!!!)
     
  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Here's a quick and dirty way of doing it without having to deal with the Environment:

    1. Load in your two instruments on two software instrument tracks.

    2. Set them both to respond to the MIDI channel your controller is sending out.

    3. Set the key range limit in each of them separately so that one is responding to the lower range, and the other to the upper range. You do this in the Channel Parameters in the Inspector.

    4. Record enable both tracks by hitting the R button in the track header.

    5. You will now hear your split the way you want it and can record it that way as well.

    It is more elegant to create a simple dummy instrument in the Environment, cable it to two software instruments with their key ranges set as described above; and then use the "dummy" instrument as the track instrument.
     
  6. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    check!

    Check!

    Thank you! The "down and dirty way" works!

    (Still though, i would like to be using the environment; I figured out how to make patches in MAX/MSP but the Logic environment still eludes me...)

    Does the elegant way give me functionality the down and dirty way doesn't?

    todd
     
  7. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    The main advantage of the "elegant" way is that you will only be dealing with one track in the Arrange Window. One region, no alias', no record enabling multiple tracks.
     
  8. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I've attached an environment for you. There may be a more elegant way, but this has an instrument in the arrange that is cabled to two transormers acting as note filters. Each transformer is cabled to a separate EXS (bass and guitar)

    If you click on each transformer you will see how the filters are set up, one for notes up to B2, and the other for notes above C3
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    This way is more elegant. There is just one filter, The notes defined are sent to the top cable output, everything else to the bottom.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    thanks for this info

    I'm still stymied

    (first problem I've inelegantly solved; where is the "filter" object to be found? I ended up copying the filter object from the song file you sent me, but I figure there's an easier way to do this.)

    Second problem; How do I make my instrument object appear in the Arrange window?

    Sorry to be so elementary about all this. I am looking at the Help pages but I find it really difficult to understand, and simply find the bits that I particularly need.

    thanks
     
  11. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    The filter is a transformer (I renamed them). In the environment go to the New menu, you choose transformers there. (So is the instrument object.

    All you need do is set it up the I have in the example.

    To get the Instrument in the arrange, you select it in the track. You are on Logic 8, I don't remember if it's the same, but in Logic 9 it's a CTRL and click on a track and choose "reassign track".

    But, I really would recommend reading the manual at this stage to get an understanding rather than just copying what I did. I think that way you will learn how to do this for different situations.

    Hope that helps.
     
  12. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Everything Pete is telling you is spot on. But there is a way to do this without having to deal with transformers - not that there's anything wrong with transformers :D

    Instead of using transformers, just set the key limit ranges in the channel strips of each of the two destination instruments. Once you've done that, all that's left is to create the dummy instrument, cable it to both the instruments; and finally set it as your track instrument...... No transformers :)
     
  13. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    Thank you very much.

    It's working now.

    I now have a toehold into the environment.

    Now to create that prepared piano I've been meaning to build...

    toddthing
     
  14. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I knew Eli would have a better solution!

    But it's good to learn a bit about transformers' filters anyway.
     
  15. toddthing2

    toddthing2 New Member

    thought I'd PS'd my last post to acknowledge Eli last post...

    yeah, glad to know about transformers

    also, if I want to switch to the full pitch ranged instrument I simply have to click that instrument track. (not further fiddling with the inspector pop-ups)

    thanks again for all the expertise

    toddthing
     
  16. thirdspace

    thirdspace New Member

    Great tips as usual guys. Is there a way to set this up without pre-determining the split point, so that say you played any two notes, the lower would go to one channel, the upper to another. If you only played one note it would always go to say the lower, but if you added another note or played two at once, the second would go to the upper channel?
     
  17. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think that's possible live, but after playing you can split lines to channels. However I think it only really works when there are a constant number of voices.

    In the score window menu:

    Functions>Note Events> Voices to Channels
     
  18. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    It is a very interesting topic !

    I agree with the Eli's method and the Environment ones. Personally I prefer the Environment ones cause you can patch lots of interesting midi processing tools inside a given path split. As an example, I'm used to use a Complex tool "Virtual Controller" which can split the keyboard range at a given note and channelize the paths very easy - I use this tool in one of my site Demo Videos - Vox De Bulgaria so every one who is interested can have a look there.
    For instance, I can cable one of my Complex tools "Midi Latch/Hold" after the Virtual Controller and set the Midi Latch tool channel to match the Lower part split channel of the Virtual Controller Tool. This way I can easily hold strings, pads etc using my left hand.

    It is a really nice Environment challenge to make it to work live !

    Just for this reason, I spent some time to build an ultimate smart complex macro tool named Polyphonic Channelizer. I loved the idea cause there are at least a few Environment challenges that have been never solved by now:
    1. The first challenge is to create a polyphonic Environment algorithm which can "CUSTOM" channelize the incoming voice amount.
    2. The second challenge are the Note OFFs. I.e ones the Note ONs are "Custom" channelized in the "Polyphonic Channelizer" (look at the image below Fig.1 - Midi Ch. Assign Boxes), after your continuos play many of the Note OFFs will get wrong midi channel and we will have a "Note Hanging issue". That's why we need some "Smart" technology to solve the problem.
    3. The "Other Data" (Fig.4 below) inc CC#, Prg, PB etc must be channelized correctly as well, make it following the Note Polyphonic "Custom" channelization. In other words when you trigger a single Midi channel voices the new Polyphonic Channelizer will channelize each voice to a "Custom" Logic Software Instrument (Patch) so you will need to control all active "Software Instruments" as "One Global Multi-Timbral Custom Voice Patch Instrument" using a "Global" Pitch Bend, Modulation etc for all Software Instrument instances to be able to thread them as One Instrument !


    Polyphonic Channelizer Quick Guide

    1. Use the Green Midi Ch. Assign Boxes (blue highlighted in Fig.1) to "Custom" channelize each polyphonic midi voice (Fig.1).
    Example: In (Fig.1) the Midi Ch. Assign Boxes are set to the Factory Logic Template Settings Ch.1,2,3 etc, matching the "Voice Amount/Step Indicators" (see the yellow guides Fig.1).
    2. The Yellow "Voice Amount Indicators" (Fig.1) behave as Step voice amount sequencer.
    Example: If you want to customize the midi channel assign of your first triggered voice to say midi ch.5 (Fig.2) you set the 1st "Voice Amount Indicator" to ch.5, the 2nd to Ch.10 etc (Fig.2).
    3. You can assign same midi channels (Software Instrument/Patch) for a few polyphonic voices as well (Fig.3).
    4. The "Other Data" text fader menu offers two modes:
    • "All Poly Ch." - default (recommended). In this mode when you need to use say Bitch Bend or Modulation (etc), your incoming Control data will be copied to the all "Active" polyphonic instruments. I.e if you play 3 midi notes then the "Other Data" will be copied and sent to these 3 instruments/patches.
    In other words the Polyphonic Channelizer will intelligently care which channel is polyphonically "Active" or not. In this scenario all Software Instruments will follow your single channel control midi data like CC#, PB etc so the all Instruments will behave as one instrument regarding the control data.
    • "Top Poly Ch." - it is a very custom scenario (mode) where the incoming "Other Data" follows the top voice amount midi channel only ! Keep in mind that the "Top Voice Amount" is floating and this is a very "Extra" mode !
    5. The red On/Off button behaves as a Macro "Bypass" button.
    You can control the On/Off button externally via a "Custom" Control Change Number set in the Numerical fader labeled as (CC#) to the left.


    About the Demo​


    You can download a Demo Logic Song version of the Polyphonic Channelizer below. The Demo version provides up to 50 Note event entries after that it expires and all incoming notes will follow the original mono-timbral midi channel "Law" of your external controller - like the Polyphonic Channelizer is in bypass mode.
    Hint: If you want to try or test that Complex Midi Tool more, you can use the Logic file menu "Revert to Save".

    The Tool is patched between the Physical Input and the Sequencer object in the "Click & Ports" Environment layer. Screenset #1 recalls the tool as "Float". The song template Logic Settings are set to "Multi Player/Live mode" - Autodemix by channel is enabled and all Arrange tracks are armed. You can try different scenarios shown in (Fig.2 & Fig.3) using the pre-loaded 10 Software Instruments.

    A.G


    Polyphonic Channelizer Demo v1.0 - DOWNLOAD

    [​IMG]
     
  19. JAISSERA

    JAISSERA New Member

    I am trying to split a keyboard into 3 parts with 3 different sounds, but using Logic Platinum 5,3. Would you like some help ... congratulations for the site ... (sorry for the english, I'm Brazilian)
     

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