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Logic 9 Key Command Sets / BT Universal / Davids / Logic 9

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by MrTacos, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. MrTacos

    MrTacos New Member

    So, the release of Logic 9 and some recent changes I've made to my workflow have got me thinking about key command sets again.

    So, let me explain my understanding of the state of the World, and you Logic experts correct me where I'm wrong:
    - Logic ships with >1,000 commands assignable to HID keys or MIDI events (CC#s or just notes?) in the Opt-K window
    - This is way more than a normal computer keyboard has keys for, even with modifiers, so large numbers of them are not assigned, allowing the user to customize and save these sets.
    - Logic DOES ship with a default set of assignments, but this depends on the region and computer keyboard, and it can be reset to blank.
    - People can create and share command sets and switch between them and so on.
    - By DEFAULT, some Logic key mappings in US/English mode conflict with default OS X global key commands
    - Major updates of Logic tend to introduce new assignable commands (e.g Flex Time transient marker manipulation tools)

    My personal setup has essentially evolved from two things: (1) Going through the Davids books and assigning keys when they came up and were relevant to something I do. (2) Searching for something in either the Opt-K window or Google and being like "oh yeah, I need a key for that."

    As I understand it, BT made a push to get people to standardize on an expanded set of default keys a few years back, which was discussed in various places but seems to have fallen by the wayside.

    I know there's an attitude, common amongst the sorts of incessant knob twiddlers that end up using programs like Logic (also common amongst the similarly-minded software developers) that this is great, actually, it would be better if Logic shipped with NO mapped commands and every user could create his own and store them in a text file and push it to github. That's cool, but I'm not really talking to you guys in this post, no offense.

    It seems to me eminently reasonable to try to converge on a baseline set of key commands. Users would be free to modify it to suit their perfect workflow, and extend it as not all commands would be able to be mapped, but why aren't more mapped by default than there are now? I don't particularly care _which_ key is mapped. Frankly, I don't want to sit down with Logic now and rethink my individual shortcuts. There are tons and tons I don't know at all. I have no muscle memory for them.

    I think the Apple experience in general though shows that there's a lot of value to be gained in agreeing on as much "reasonable default" as possible, as opposed to "hey, just make it an option." It reduces cognitive load on everybody, and I for one end up sitting down at other people's Logic rigs all the time. Having a sort of standard baseline of expanded KC's seems like it would make this easier.

    What is the current Logic Expert thinking on this? Are people adopting/using BT's set? Is there a L9 version? Is there another commandset that covers a wider range than the default, but is relatively well thought-out, commonly used, and available for download?

    I may very well be missing something big, but it seems to me that this should really be Apple's job. They aren't doing it. However, by making so much mappable and making the mappings easy to share and swap around, they've given us all the tools we need to do it.

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Could you maybe point to a link or something giving more information about this?

    kind regards

    Mark
     
  4. MrTacos

    MrTacos New Member

  5. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    OK, thanks for the link. Hmm, I don't want to come across as being unduly cynical, but it is hard to avoid suspecting a certain star struck mindset along the lines of "Use BTs Key Commands, the VERY SAME KCs used to make all those hits!!"

    Customizable KCs are a central feature of Logic, that is to an extent a philosophical issue, and one which sets logic apart from other more standardized working methods, I believe Pro Tools would be the best known example of the "one set of KCs to rule them all" school of thought.

    Aside from that, I fail to see the relevance of the arument that it would be so important to be able to go to other recording studios and find the same KCs being used. The easy solution is, bring your own. Don't forget to be polite and ask to use them first, and then make sure that the Studio saves their KCs so they can be re-instated later when you are finished ;)

    kind regards

    Mark
     
  6. MrTacos

    MrTacos New Member

    HTML:
    <i>OK, thanks for the link. Hmm, I don't want to come across as being unduly cynical, but it is hard to avoid suspecting a certain star struck mindset along the lines of "Use BTs Key Commands, the VERY SAME KCs used to make all those hits!!"</i>
    Dude, I see where you're coming from here, but I assure, that is NOT where I'm coming from. I don't even listen to this guy's music. Has he HAD any hits even? I think its more that his higher visibility makes his KCS post more visible. I'd be perfectly keen on using RandomUserName's KCS. Please, believe me. That said, given that I am not an extremely experienced Logic user, I don't think its unreasonable to look to people who are for best practices. People who've invested years and years of learning into a very complex tool and say, "hey, generally, this comes in handy..." This is basically what lots of people do when they go through the Dvorin book and assign the key commands he describes and it seems to work ok.

    HTML:
    <i>Customizable KCs are a central feature of Logic, that is to an extent a philosophical issue, and one which sets logic apart from other more standardized working methods, I believe Pro Tools would be the best known example of the "one set of KCs to rule them all" school of thought.</i>[HTML]
    
    I'm in no way advocating for losing the customization ability.  I'm looking for a larger set of shared defaults.  It's like OS X versus Linux: the Linux philosophy is 'Make every single thing an option or preference that can be customized,' whereas OS X basically says, 'Pick a reasonable Policy, if necessary, add a simple preference.  Expose crazy customization via things like the 'defaults' command and plists for power users.'  For me, OS X ends up being a lot easier to use, because I don't frankly want to bear the cognitive load of customizing everything about my setup when I'm trying to do something else (e.g. write music).
    
    [HTML]<i>Aside from that, I fail to see the relevance of the arument that it would be so important to be able to go to other recording studios and find the same KCs being used. The easy solution is, bring your own. Don't forget to be polite and ask to use them first, and then make sure that the Studio saves their KCs so they can be re-instated later when you are finished</i>[HTML]
    
    True true.  Point taken, and this is even easier if you use Mobile Me syncing.  However, I think there would be other benefits.  Think about how many forum posts include the phrase '...in the default US-en with numeric keypad set..., without numeric its...'
    
    For example, I use vim to edit text.  Vim has 8 trillion key commands.  I have many of them customize via my preferences files.  However, it has loads and loads of defaults that I haven't changed.  This makes it easier to share tips about vim, etc.  I don't particular care whether shift-a or shift-b is 'jump to the end of the line and enter insert mode', i just want one picked.
    
    Again, this isn't a huge deal, I'm realizing as I'm writing this reply that its coming out like "NO U R RONGG WE N33D THIS!!!" which isn't my intent.  I'm just trying to clarify my view as to the advantages.  Also, I posted the same question today on LUG's boards, and the response there is also not enthusiastic.  Far from trying to start some project to define these keys, I was kind of hoping the Elders of these boards would be like 'actually, in our Templates forum, you'll say JonnnyRandom's key set, its pretty well thought out and comes with a nice PDF of the assignments, start with that.  Oh, also, because so many people use it, one of those keyboard-overlay companies sells an overlay that matches this keyset, instead of only including the defaults, which makes it easier to learn and use.'  Sort of like when I got my padKontrol, I found a thread where a guy made a whole bunch of well-thought-out scenes for it, saved a lot of people the time of chugging through the Editor/Librarian software and creating effectively the same thing.
    
    If that's not the case, then I guess I'll just start going through key commands and picking random keys to assign them too.
    
    Take it easy--  -MrTacos
     
  7. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Errrr - this is the LUG :confused:
     
  8. MrTacos

    MrTacos New Member

    sorry man, two windows open, brain running on half speed. I posted this question a couple days ago on LPH, no one replied (at least, no replied in an on-topic fashion) till AFTER I posted this question here, then I got back from lunch and started replying to both threads at the same time. My b.
     

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