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Logic Studio apps L9/Mainstage 2

Discussion in 'MainStage' started by The Scuba Cult, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Okay, I've got these finished songs in Logic 9. No UltraBeat, no syncs, just audio strips in combination with a couple Piano Roll strips. How do I begin importing (preferably drag/drop) into Mainstage 2 to que it all up for live shows? Ex., I've got 7 tracks in L9 and I want those 7 tracks in MS2 for Playback. I can't get MS2 to open up project(s) from L9.
  3. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Mainstage will not import a Logic 9 project file. It also doesn't do MIDI. Convert any MIDI tracks to audio. My answer to your other post tells you how to add audio files to a MainStage concert.

    If you have time, the getting started manual for MainStage isn't a hard read and can really get you up and running pretty quickly.
  4. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Thank's for the response Doug. From your first reply I tried to add audio files but came up empty handed. I couldn't get the "gracious" opening part going, and I know exactly what you meant by that oddly enough. (I'm under the impression that bouncing audio files into MS2 with automation and channel strip data would relieve processing power for more reliable live performance) No?

    The tutorial CD's look really good but the $500 I put down for Studio still hurts.
    I do appreciate the advice and I will read the manuel even more thoroughly than I previously have when I'm able.
  5. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    This really does work, not sure what you're doing wrong...

    The idea of rendering (bouncing) a track in Logic is absolutely correct - it will reduce the CPU strain to have MainStage play back an audio file with all effects recorded rather than added live as plug-ins.

    So, did you try dragging and dropping a bounced file (do this with file from the finder window or desktop) onto the channel strip area? You'll get a little line between channel strips to appear when you're in the right spot. I just did it - it works fine.

    Alternately, you can open up a Playback plug-in and load a file in that way, via the file menu - single click opens up a window to locate file.
  6. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    "So, did you try dragging and dropping a bounced file (do this with file from the finder window or desktop) onto the channel strip area?"

    Not yet. I'm assuming I'll "bounce in place" each individual audio/midi track in order to do that in preparation to load into MS2. I'll get it going asap. I'll try the Playback route you suggested first. Thank you.
  7. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Yes, BIP can do the job. If you are bringing in stems (drums, bass, guitar etc.), do make sure all files are the same length (for the same song). They should all start and end together, even if that means silence at the beginning or end. No problem if you're bringing in a single file as a backing track.
  8. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Just thought I'd keep you updated a bit.
    Wow, is MainStage nice or what? I did what you suggested and it's working beautifully. I dragged the files into an 8 track template individually, because when I tried to drag 7 tracks at once MS put some of the tracks outside of Playback, so in the "perform" function the tracks higher than 8 didn't have audio. Upon individual track loading it now works flawlessly. My two questions would be:
    1. Can I add more backing tracks to the template?
    2. During performance playback, can MS use realtime effects? e.g. pitch correction in live vocal performance while playing back audio tracks?

    Thank for your time and any input.
  9. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Thanks for the update. You're doing some things I've never tried...

    I think I the most files I've ever dragged in was four - not aware if there is a limit on number of files for drag/drop.

    You should be able to. You can copy/paste a playback channel strip (and assign a new audio file to it), use the file drop feature (will it allow you to do that?), go to the channel strip area and click the plus sign or the gear icon....

    It should be able to - you could use the MS plug-in or an external device. However, you may be dealing with unacceptable latency. Make sure it's the first plug-in in your routing - don't want any processing before it to add delay or confuse the pitch analysis.

  10. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member


    Two jobs has got me hopping, Doug!

    On importation into MS, I'm using the 8 Backing Track template (which I'm not sure is what I need actually, because I also have the 8 Track Mixer & One Backing Track). I say that because after I 'Bounce in Place' all tracks in Logic and drag/drop them individually into MS, the insert effects and automation are not there upon Playback (although it looks beautiful to see the little wave files above the tracks). I'm not sure if the Mixer Template allow for insert and automation data, because the 8 Backing Tracks template isn't. (All this because house PA's and their respective architecture have there own harmonic characteristics in which I am powerless and having individual volume control over separate tracks could help the situation and the soundman).

    I will continue to experiment and learn when I am able and keep this little column informed. The next hurdle will be live insert effects during Playback in MS, but I have to get all the inserts/automation in the backing tracks there first.

    Thanks for your suggestions and guidance Doug.
  11. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Glad to see you've got some work - it's been tough out there...

    The templates are for different uses. The 8 backing tracks template is for using up to 8 audio files. The other is for up to 8 live audio tracks (using mainstage as the mixer and for adding effects) and one audio file (backing track). I'm going to guess you would be better of with the first one, although you may have to augment it to fit your performance needs.

    MainStage doesn't read automation information associated with the track. It's not even included in the bounce. If it's volume, print it in the bounce. If it's for effects, either print that as well or try to recreate it live by assigning a controller(s) to the parameter(s).

    If you have a custom channel strip for a track, save it in Logic and you can then load it in MainStage. You'll then have all your effects with their patches and settings automatically loaded and ready to go.

    Good luck - keep posting as needed.
  12. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Thanks Doug. You're right, it is tough out there.

    I'm no where near setting parameters yet, although it appears very user friendly. I've bounced all tracks from Logic onto the desktop, then dropped them into MS (which is how I found that the insert/automation data didn't carry over (when insert MUTE wasn't working on specific tracks). When you say "print it out in the bounce", how do you do that exactly? You're right, each track has it's own custom channel strip in which I need MS to recognize as well.

    Thanks for your time. Gotta run.
  13. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    You need to give MainStage a file that is a bounce of what you hear. The term print is taking reverb (for example) and saying let's bounce the file with the reverb effect on it so I can get rid of one Space Designer plug-in. The reverb effect is now part of your audio file and you would use it instead of the dry audio file with the reverb plug-in on the channel strip.

    So then, all automation should be part of audio file (but a single setting of reverb can be replicated in MainStage, just not changes of the parameters). When you play it back the file, you don't need the automation as all the volume, pan, mutes, effect changes, etc are now part of the audio file. This is the file Mainstage should have. It cannot take an audio file and know when to mute it, increase the reverb volume, etc. (Maybe version 3.x).

    Hope this makes sense....
  14. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Yep, totally makes sense, Doug.

    I've loaded several songs in a concert set now. Each song with it's own multiple track template. Maybe I'm imagining things but, the audio doesn't sound the same when I playback in MS. Almost as if the compressor data for each individual track didn't transfer from L9 into MS. Example, UltraBeat kick sounds "flimsy" in MS perfomance mode.

    Method I've used to get tracks into MS:

    Logic-->Track-->Bounce-Replace All Tracks-->check Include Volume/Pan Information, uncheck (if checked) Bypass Effects Plug-ins.
    -then "Save As..." to Desktop and drag/drop individual tracks into MS.

    I know it writes SOME automation in the process but does Bounce-Replace All Tracks write ALL the plug-in information for each channel strip? . . . or do I have to add things like Compression after the fact in MS?

    I'm thinking of doing the "Bounce-Replace" whilst simply keeping it in L9 and just opening each BIP'd song live on stage. At least that way I can keep latency in acceptable parameters?

    Thanks for your time. I also would like to get your suggestion on a midi controller like the one you use in your tutorials (25 key).

    Be well.
  15. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I've not noticed this. That said, you can use a note to trigger an UltraBeat pattern so you're using the plug-in in live mode rather than the audio file. Also, sometimes volume comes into play to confuse the ear.

    All plug-ins on the channel strip will be included in the bounce. In fact, it will even capture plug-ins on an aux strip that you've routed audio to.

    Some people are preferring to work this way. I'm not sure the latency will be any better, but I won't argue with success and comfort zones.

    You're welcome for my time. Regarding a controller, for the tutorials I used a Novation 25 key that I have since replaced with an Axiom Pro 49. But as a guitarist for live gigs I've found I like the Apogee GiO and I supplement that with a MIDI volume pedal and a Korg Nanokontrol. You might query keyboardists on the forum as to what they like the best...

  16. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    So far so good. Audio is sounding excellent. The Adaptive Limiter is nice.

    In MS, in order to keep it organized on stage, I'm having a bit of trouble. I want to have the concert set up like this:
    "Untitled Concert" folder,
    1 (reel-to-reel icon) Song One
    2 (" " " " ) Song Two
    3 (" " " " ) Song Three
    4 (" " " " ) Etc, etc.

    I've read the manuel and it's a bit vague. For starters, I can't seem to create an "Untitled Concert" master template (8-Backing Tracks)?. When I click on the Untitled Concert folder the template is blank with exclamation marks where the parameters are at. (Midi control)? Second, below it, "Song One" is loaded, named, and ready to go with the "8-Backing Tracks" template I picked upon opening MS, but when I go down to "Song Two" it stays on the "Song One" name in the Patch List. I'm not understanding how MS want's me to go about this for 'set's and patches: For my desires, according to the manuel, I don't need patches per say, but when I click "New Set" a blue folder comes up in the Patch List with another black template, I try to import a template, but everything is ghosted out. Can I create a Concert Folder with songs under it ready to go?

    Bloody hell Doug, in spite of, I still love MS, but she's apparently a little complicated for me.

    Thank you.
  17. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    This plug-in creates latency. Use it only on your final output channel strip or perhaps better yet, look at not using it. (What are you using it for? This is something that might best be bounced with the audio file in Logic.)

    The exclamation marks do mean there is no mapping at the level you are on. If you click on your concert icon in the list, that should probably show you a different set of exclamation marks that if you click on a patch (which then shows mapping at the patch level)

    Actually, you probably do need patches. A patch is the basic level of MainStage and you can set up specifics there. I'd set up a patch per song, most likely. Sounds like you're using the set as a patch, thus the problem with the patch name not changing - you haven't changed patches, just gone to a new set....

    I have a few suggestions:

    Upload here or e-mail me your concert file (without backing track audio files attached) and I will look at it.

    You mentioned my tutorials - if you have access to them they would explain all this as well. Bill Burgess also has a good DVD out on MainStage so there are choices.
  18. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    I'm using the Adapt Lim on the output only. It seems to be okay.

    So I need to open a Concert and then start adding Patches as songs under right? It would be nice to have each Patch open up as a mapped template already but that doesn't seem to be the case. The same for the main concert folder. I'm signed up on G3 but can't pickup the tutorials yet. Yeah, I can send you a concert file. I'm assuming I'll export it as a project from MS? I'll continue the investigation as such.
  19. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Once you create a concert, the best way is to set up one patch with your mappings and then copy it (option drag) to make other patches. It won't take care of everything but it should help out a lot. All the mapping you've created will be retained - you will need to remap according to the differences at the set level.

    Remember, there are three levels of mapping. You should map your patch and set changes at the concert level, as well as your output channel strip controls. You may want to map things at the set level, if you indeed need to use them. One nice technique is to set up your playback plug-ins at the set level and then you can change patches within the set without losing your playback. Example for me is to go from a clean patch to distorted guitar patch on the same song (the song is at the set level).

    You can easily copy anything from one level to another by using the OS cut, copy and paste commands. Select your channel strips at one level, cut or copy, select the destination (patch, set or concert) and paste.

    Don't think you need to export as a project - or if you do, make sure it doesn't collect your backing track (playback) audio files. That will probably be to big to send.
  20. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I got your second file and have sent it back. I copied your first patch using Option Drag and created a duplicate of the second patch by using the plus sign at the right of the patch list.

    So, if you map your first patch and copy it to a new patch, you'll retain any mapping you have (this is true of copying single channel strips or groups of channel strips as well). The problem is you'd need to replace your audio files in the Playback plug-in, which shouldn't take too long.

    Notice the copy of the first patch retains all the playback plug-ins and creating a new patch has nothing on the patch level (all strips have the concert badge above them).

    Not sure if this all explains the obvious or answers questions......
  21. The Scuba Cult

    The Scuba Cult New Member

    Hello sir! I've been able to sit down with it for a couple hours now. I see what you mean by option drag, very nice- but the mapping parameters above the tracks are unmapped still; exclamation marks where PLAY, STOP, RETURN, TIME REMAINING, FADE OUT, used to be. I've tried to assign parameters in this spots but I can't do it. I'm going in deep but can't find a way! I'm assuming your dvd's address this. One day Doug, one day.

    Hope all is well!

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