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Logic TDM Logic Pro 9.1 and TDM - The Deafening Silence!!!

Discussion in 'Logic TDM' started by Higherground, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. Higherground

    Higherground New Member

    Where on earth did TDM compatibility go? I know that in the recent Pro Tools 8.0.3 update Digidesign mentioned that Logic Pro would no longer be supported, but there hasn't been a peep out of Apple on the matter. There's not a single mention in the 9.1 update documentation about TDM, the TDM and DTDM tabs in the Audio Devices prefs have disappeared, and yet on the Logic Pro product page under Compatibility, Apple still bodly claims that, and I quote:

    "Logic Pro fully supports Apple Core Audio and Pro Tools HD hardware. That gives you the freedom to work with almost any audio interface, and even combine the inputs and outputs of multiple devices."

    and further:

    "You can plug in any TDM or Audio Units software instrument or effect."

    Excuse me for being ultra picky here, but the Digi CoreAudio driver only accesses 8 channels of I/O on a Digi 192 and you cannot use TDM plug-ins. That's not what I would describe as full support!
  3. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    To be honest, this isn't something I look into very often, but lets look at the evidence:

    If I were to guess, I'd say that's your answer. Apple relies on Avid (Digidesign) to enable support, to write their core audio drivers, etc. It sounds like Digi hasn't really put any effort into either Logic or DP support for a long time, and with 8.0.3, finally admitted to the world that they've just given up on it (at least for now).

    If you look on DP forums, it seems that there really isn't much going on there either. I think that Avid may just be going in another direction, and while individual Logic bugs affecting Logic TDM might get fixed, I'm not sure if anything that requires Avid's help/coding/assistance will get much attention...

  4. Higherground

    Higherground New Member

    Agreed. My point is that Apple could have at least mentioned the demise of TDM in their 9.1 release notes and stop advertising that Logic Pro fully supports TDM and Pro Tools HD Hardware?

    As for me, I'm experimenting with a fully native rig and I've invested in a bunch of extra RAM and an RME HDSPe RayDAT which is working brilliantly.
  5. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    does it happens with both 32 bit and 64 bit version?

    So basically it's sure that i can't update to logic 9.1 ?
    there are no info about TDM
    can i update or not?
  6. crimsonnoise

    crimsonnoise New Member

    So this is indeed the end of Logic TDM. I am happy to go on for a while with Logic 9.02, PT8.01, but at some point will have to look for an alternative.

    I'd be curious which route others will take. At the moment my favourite solution would be to get a RME Madi card with an SSL XLogic Madi converter. This way I can still leave two PT Accel cards in the Mac, so I can continue to use Pro Tools for certain projects. Annoyingly this means spending another £2200.

    I have also considered moving to Pro Tools. While this will have some advantages the main disadvantage for me is that everybody I'm working with (programmers, orchestrators) are all working on Logic.
  7. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    Higherground you're wrong, i've just updated

    TDM is fully functional and working with 9.1.0, well with same bugs as 9.0.2 but working
    you made me hungry for nothing

    i feel better now, so logic tdm is not dead!!! (yet)
  8. crimsonnoise

    crimsonnoise New Member

    Excellent news Tigerman. Thanks for checking.
  9. stevensagogo

    stevensagogo New Member

    I installed 9.1.0 and no longer have TDM working. Question for Tigerman...which version of Pro Tools do you have installed?
  10. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    osx 10.5.8
    don't go to logic 64bit
    stay on the 32bit

    but no working what you mean? do you still see dae and direct tdm menus in preferences? are you on snow leopard?
    i would like to understand this issue
  11. Higherground

    Higherground New Member

    So you're running Pro Tools 8.0.1 on Mac OS 10.5.8? Well, after some further testing, I think I'm going to stand by my original post; TDM compatibility has ceased with Snow Leopard and Logic 9.x and still no mention from Apple!
    Mac Pro 2.66 Quad Xeon, OS 10.6.2, 12GB RAM, Pro Tools|HD2, Logic Pro 9.1
  12. stevensagogo

    stevensagogo New Member

    i do see dae and direct tdm checkbox menus in preferences....but selecting them and rebooting Logic does not change the fact that when Logic is starting up, it does not see my HD interfaces and the checkboxes are once again not selected. It zips right to midi setup and allows me no TDM recording or playback. I believe the last working Logic TDM working combo is Logic 9.02 and Pro Tools 8.0.1cs1.
  13. Higherground

    Higherground New Member

    Yes, I since found that the DAE/DTDM checkboxes only appear in 32 bit mode, but DAE won't boot. However, I'm talking specifically about Snow Leopard which doesn't even allow Logic 9.x to boot with TDM. The last compatible Snow Leopard combo was Logic 8.0.2 Pro Tools 8.0.1cs1.
  14. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    nope, the last official compatible version in snow leopard is with pro tools pre release 8.0.3
    you should try with that.
    i don't know if you are still able to download the prerelease from digidesign.
    let us know if you give it a try thanks

    else you have to downgrade to leopard :/
  15. Higherground

    Higherground New Member

    Nope, been there, done that. I've tried Pro Tools 8.0.1cs1 as well as the 8.0.3pr but Logic 9.0.2/9.1 will not talk to DAE in Snow Leopard 10.6.2. Logic 8 will, but Logic 9 will not.
  16. So is there a definite yes or No to Logic/TDM working with 10.5.8/PT8.0.1/logic 9.1 from anybody's direct experience?....Obviously in 32 bit mode only i presume.


  17. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    yes on 10.5.8 + L9.1 + pt 8.0.1 on a mac intel corei7 everything is working fine here.

    btw you need a special dvd to install 10.5.x on a new corei7 mac as a retail version will not boot.
    It will boot only with the dvd provided with those machines before 10.6 was out
  18. crimsonnoise

    crimsonnoise New Member

    Working fine here too: 10.5.8 + L9.1 + pt 8.0.1
  19. Thanx Tigerman,

    I'm still on 10.5.8 on an intel Nehalem 2.66, LP9.0.2, PT8.0.1 with HD3A thru 2 x 192's, and fireface 400 on core audio + lightpipe.
    Apart from the really annoying memory limitation it's been pretty stable...long term bugs aside. But I NEED it to be working every day as a pro composer.

    BTW if I upgrade from 9.0.2 to 9.1 will it overwrite 9.0.2 or will I still have 9.0.2 to fall back on if it goes tits up?

    I am on the verge of binning my protools rig and replacing it with either Lynx / Orpheos or ULN-8's, the hassle of running logic thru Digi hardware is just more limitation that it's worth now.....and what with digi's obviously permanent withdrawal of support for DAE in Logic / DP it's a no brainer, the new macs are more than powerful enough, especially with 64 bit well underway, to cope with the extra processing previously tasked by the digi cards. Pretty much all the TDM plugs are on AU now anyway....and a ton of 'better' ones NOT on TDM!
    The only pain will be converting old Core+TDM trax to core only for remixes etc....which is actually a heck of a lot more straightforward (read 'Possible'!!) than the other way round!
    Even though PT cost me enough to buy a small house in France! it still made me way way more than it cost and that's just about the only sensible way to rationalise the move and maintain my sanity! (and save some tax).
    In the meantime, if LP 9.1 goes some way to smoothing bugs and making the memory issue more sensible (for want of a better word), then I guess it's worth the leap of faith that goes with the upgrade territory!

    My blurb for the day ;~)

  20. crimsonnoise

    crimsonnoise New Member

    The Logic 9.1 install will leave 9.02 intact.

    I'm in a very similar position as you. However, I'll will for the moment have to hang on to Pro Tools hardware as well, as there is always some work that has to be done in Pro Tools (recording orchestras abroad etc), so I'm looking at a MADI PCIE card and a SSL XLogic MAdi-analog converter to just use Core Audio alone.. This still leaves two PCIe slots free to keep two HD Accel cards as well.
  21. Hi CN,
    Thanx for that. Sounds like a plan for you...it's horses for courses really, I don't really need PT as I write exclusively in the studio, but at this rate, failing a good sale price I'll probably keep it on a separate mac! (I still have my Atari 1040 STE in the attic!!..Complete with radiation burnout monitor.Call me a hoarder!)

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