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Logic 9 Logic Studio Documentation

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by timblade, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. timblade

    timblade New Member

    Okay, I'm pissed.

    The lack of printed/easily utilized digital (.PDF) documentation for a product that's meant to be used by professionals is an atrocious move by Apple.

    There's currently a thread over at the Apple support forums ( ) where people are venting their frustration.

    I recently (like 10 minutes ago) decided that this was a load of crap, and us customers really shouldn't be treated like this. I realized that it seems that the only thing that really gets Apple to respond to problems in a timely fashion is bad PR. I decided to post an eloquent reply (no swear words, proper grammar, good spelling), suggesting that we should e-mail and notify our favorite blogs and magazines about this cop out move by Apple.

    I suggested we mention to the blogs/news tips contacts that we were enraged by the lack of documentation for a "professional product" and wanted to get word out to our favorite publications about this.

    Anyways, the post was QUICKLY removed by a moderator. I understand that on Apple's support forum they can do anything they want... but that still just pisses me off.

    Please help; if you're annoyed by the lack of available printed/PDF documentation, take the time to send a news tip to your favorite blog or industry magazine explaining how you feel.

    I've included a copy of my post removal mail below. It's frustrating that Apple can remove a post that's venting frustration so quickly but not actually respond to the thread. Argh.

    I yearn for the days of emagic.


    Recently you posted a petition-like request on Apple Discussions. We are including a copy of your post at the end of this email for your reference. We understand the desire to share experiences in your topic, "Re: Documentation rant (slightly) -- no user manual in PDF?!?" but because these posts are not allowed on our forums, we have removed your post.

    These forums are intended for technical questions that can be answered by the community. We want everyone to be able to contribute to our forums and have their issues addressed. We feel that we have a very strong community and that it is an excellent resource for users to get assistance. I encourage you to continue using the Apple Discussion Forums while abiding by our terms of use. The terms of use, which also includes helpful information about using Apple Discussions, is located here:

    If you would like to share your experiences with Apple directly, you can submit feedback here:

    As part of submitting feedback, please read the Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy linked to the feedback page.

    Apple Discussions staff
  3. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    I think that the feeling that Apple should at least have provided pdf documentation that the user can access and print out him/herself is one that quite a number of logic users share. This has been mentioned already in the forum, but with regard to the nature of your post it seems appropriate to once again mention it in this thread - Apple have a questionnaire about their documentation right here:

    So it would seem that they are actually interested in getting responses from users about their documentation. It is certainly worthwhile filling this out.

    kind regards

  4. sonicdeviant

    sonicdeviant New Member

  5. timblade

    timblade New Member

    @markdvc: Yeah, I've already filled out every feedback form I could find (, the documentation survey, and I filed a bug report). It just really bugged me that they were so quick to remove a post from their forum but haven't actually replied to any critique.

    @sonicdeviant: Sweet! My hope is that if enough smaller bloggers cover this, and enough people e-mail industry magazines, eventually some publication like Mix/Remix, Pro Sound News, Keyboard Magazine, etc. will put it on their blog or post, write a short article wondering why, or post "letter to the editors".

    I realize we can always "vote with our wallets", but I love Logic. I don't think expecting decent documentation is asking that much as a customer.
  6. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    One can argue whether searchable help counts as "easily utilized" or not. But if you follow the other threads on Logic 9, we're pretty much all uniformly disappointed in the lack of PDF.

    Well, as you mentioned, Apple owns their forums. They have terms of service that basically reserve the right to pull down any post for any reason at any time, with or without telling you. Moreover, for those who follow online fora, it is very well documented that Apple tends to remove quickly any line of discussion that puts them in a bad light. If your post was removed so quickly, it seems to me you might have triggered some key words (doesn't need to be profanity, it could be just "anti-Apple" language) that resulted in an automatic deletion.

    Understandable, but usual for the Apple Discussion forums. I think that's one reason that the "unofficial" users groups are popular.

    FWIW, I am sure that Apple will release a PDF of the Logic Pro 9 Manual at some point. I'm not sure what the delay is, but I really can't see any reason that they would have a permanent desire to not release a PDF, especially since it is possible (with significant effort) for users to make their own anyway.

  7. timblade

    timblade New Member

    But when?

    Yeah, I figured they'll probably release better documentation at some point, but I was hoping if enough disgruntled customers expressed said disgruntlement in a public and noisy fashion (magazines, high traffic blogs vs. forums) that maybe we'll at least get a "it's coming" out of Apple.

    Of course, hoping for that from Apple is pretty much pointless. :brkwl: We all know how they operate.
  8. ogygax

    ogygax New Member

    a question out of curiosity: What happens if you order a brand new copy of Logic Pro 9? Does it include printed manuals?

    If so, one might expect the sources to exist and it's a matter of time before they become available to the 'upgrade' community. The online Help is certainly a way to provide dynamic content quickly, while the PDF version is completed.

    From the questions in the Apple recent survey, they certainly want to understand the user's style of referencing help content. Make sure you provide enough use cases for their consideration.

  9. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member


  10. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    > If your post was removed so quickly, it seems to me you might have triggered some
    > key words (doesn't need to be profanity, it could be just "anti-Apple" language) that
    > resulted in an automatic deletion.

    the T&Cs quite clearly state:

    "Do not post polls or petitions or links to same."

    As a frequent lobbyist I can spot anti-lobby legislation a mile off :)
    ...and the mods rool.


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