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Logic X Marker lengths

Discussion in 'Logic Pro X' started by Jay Denson, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    I am working on a movie. I have created scene markers and they appear in the Marker List. If I choose View and do not select Length as Absolute Position I have a set of markers all apparently 00:00:00:00 in length.

    What I would expect to see is the actual length of each marker which I can use as an edit decision list from which to compute tempos, etc in the soundtrack.

    Is there a way to achieve this?

    TIA and kind regards to all members.

    Jay
     
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  3. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    You can grab the right end and move it to the left and back again. That will show the actual length. If you click in the Marker track header, it will select all markers and you can do all but perhaps the last one in one go.
     
  4. volovicg

    volovicg Senior member

    why don't you just leave view as absolute position checked ?
     
  5. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Folks

    Doug first: scene markers don't have markers in a global marker track in the way that normal markers do - in other words there is nothing to grab in the way that you suggest. Besides, in a piece of fast-cut video I could spend hours sifting through all the scene markers - I have 40 markers in a piece lasting just 2 mins 18 seconds.

    Volovicg next: checking absolute position just gives me a right hand column (length) identical to the left hand column (position). This tells me nothing at all. I need for the length column to compute the time (in SMPTE) between each scene marker.

    I can't believe that Logic won't do something so fundamental to scoring to video.

    Any ideas?

    TIA Jay
     
  6. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Doug again. Silly me - I wasn't showing the marker track. But I have tried what you suggest (it's a double click in the marker header that selects all markers) and your idea works to an extent - but I can only do one maker at a time despite having all markers selected.
     
  7. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    A mystery - I can do this with scene markers or regular markers. I'm thinking somehow your technique is bad or your project is corrupt (consider trying on a different project).

    Maybe try again? Select all markers (can do this in marker list as well), grab the end of any one of the markers in the global marker track (you'll have the resize tool - looks like a bracket ] ), move left and then right to original end position.

    Separately (and I don't think this is the problem, but you might try) you can convert your scene markers to regular markers (and vice versa) using menu items in the marker list. Maybe as regular markers they will be more cooperative.

    Lastly, I'm on 10.2.3, your sig says 10.2.2, perhaps a bug in that version, just think out loud here....
     
  8. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Doug

    I'll try updating my LPX version. However, as things stand, if I do the marker trick you suggest the results are not saved. If I close Logic and re-open the lengths have all reverted to zero.

    I'll try the update first. Meantime thanks - will get back to you.

    Jay
     
  9. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Aha!!! Now running 10.2.3. And now it works!! Your intuition was dead right. But the results still do not save with the project and need to be remade if I close Logic and re-open. No great hassle as I only have to do the marker trick once but would you mind trying that for yourself and letting me know what you find on the saving issue?

    Thanks, Jay
     
  10. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I did try it and here's what I discovered. If you use scene markers the results are not saved. If you convert them to standard markers, they are. I honestly never use scene markers - they used to disappear if you deleted the movie. I think that's been fixed. My suggestion is to use them to help define hit points, but convert them ASAP to regular markers and don't forget to SMPTE lock them. (Scene Markers are SMPTE locked by default).
     
  11. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Doug

    That works - but you have to do the marker trick before locking them otherwise (obviously) the trick doesn't work. And now they do save with the project.

    I still think it's crazy that the lengths aren't added automatically. But, with your kind help I can achieve what I want.

    Being able to compute the length of a segment within the soundtrack allows me to do the simple math (number of bars, etc) to set bpm for the segment which makes it easier to write - especially important in writing abstract music.

    Once again, as always, many thanks for your generous help.

    Regards, Jay
     
  12. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Hi Jay,

    Welcome for the help. Slow day today (for a change) so I can kind of futz around. Good point to lock the markers AFTER adjusting the lengths.

    Regarding bars and tempos, Logic can do a lot of this for you, either with beat mapping or the Tempo Operations window (found in menu of Tempo list). There are a ton of apps out there as well, both OS and iOS. (You may well know all of this.)

    I did a video series for Groove3.com last year on working with video,with a lot of information on setting up tempo maps and signature lists. Not knowing your background, this may provide some insight for you (check out the chapter list to see what is covered). That said, you may have a system down and working for you.....
     
  13. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Doug

    I'll check out the Tempo Operations window. I don't know any of the apps you mention - can you point me to a couple for starters please?

    I have discovered many things during my first essay into scoring for video. For example, I had imported a piece of mp4 footage. The computer ran painfully slow - I Googled - turns out that, for anything except a mov file, Logic is having to render the footage on the fly using QTKitServe which shows up in Activity Monitor. But this caveat appears nowhere in the Logic user manual.

    Then after Googling for video converter apps (and purchasing one) I finally discovered that Quicktime will do all your conversions including m4v files for iPod. How cool is that?

    So you find things out sometimes painfully but often through the forums and people like yourself you find answers. I now have a fairly concise list of preparations before starting on a video project and am happy to be better informed.

    I'll check out your groove3 piece later today. Meantime. I'd like to hear about the apps you mentioned when you get a spare moment.

    Kind regards, Jay
     
  14. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I have something called SMPTE Score on my iPhone. I thought I had something as a dashboard app on my computer as well but I don't see it. I've been able to use Logic (or Auricle, but that's another story) for all timing for the last few years.

    BTW, your comment about movie files is not completely accurate, although it may be for compressed movie files. If you use a DV movie it is not a problem. And, the problems with compressed videos are subject to how powerful of a computer you have. I've seen compressed videos run fine on recent iMacs I work with that slow down my 2010 tower. Just saying... So I'm all about the DV format as I know it will cause no problems on my computer.
     
  15. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    There is an export option in Quicktime 7 to DV Streaming. But as the footage I'm experimenting with is a YouTube download (mp4) I'm not sure if it's worth upscaling.

    One other thing - when I had finished my first little project I deleted the movie and all regions and saved it as a template (called, appropriately, Movie). I started a new project from this template. Whatever I imported (mov files) it ran crippled. So I figure the template must have had something embedded from the first project which caused this. But I wasted a morning on trying. I mention this in case you or anyone else thought of doing this.

    I found that if I copy (All) the marker list I can paste this into a text document. That gives me an EDL with loads of room on the right hand side for annotations. Brilliant!!

    Thanks again for all your help.

    Best wishes, Jay
     
  16. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Always welcome for the help.

    Nor sure what you mean by running crippled, but you may have a corrupt template. Might have to delete and rebuild. It may be possible your movie is corrupt as well.
     
  17. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    By crippled I meant running real slow as when Logic is rendering the wrong movie type on the fly. I've made a new template from scratch. Anyway, I'm sorted now so happy days!!

    I have figured how to get a real EDL: make new marker list - call it Cues or EDL whatever - scroll thru movie adding markers at cue points - double click on each cue and make a short note - this gets added to the list as the marker name. Do the marker trick to fill in the lengths of each marker then SMPTE lock the list. Select All - copy to memory - paste into a text document - print. EDL made simple!!

    I have another little technique: I have a region - I call it SD cues - in which I place a snare drum (or anything one chooses) at every cue point as I make it. I keep this region open in an unlinked piano roll. This is useful as it converts cues to bar positions which I can use to make tempo and/or time signature changes (or make musical hits) at certain cue points. If I change tempo I see all the SMPTE locked drum hits to the right of the cue on which the tempo changes moving. I can adjust the tempo to place important cues at musically useful places - usually on bars or pickups. This is not as convoluted as it sounds and it works well for me,

    Hope this helps someone out there.

    Regards, Jay
     
  18. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    That's what I figured you meant, just was wondering. Good you've got a system working for you.
     

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