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Logic 8 Midi editing pedaling

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by pianistguy, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    I recorded a piano piece using the software piano instrument and i notice when i cut sections and relocate them the pedaling that has been saved with the certain sections stays where its at, therefore when i relocate or copy and paste or drag a region to a different area like i would with audio regions, the pedaling gets all messed up because it wont move with the copy and paste. Is there a way to get the pedaling to move along with the region i'm dragging? When i drag it to a new area there's also a pedaling there that has been saved from a previous region, so how do i get rid of that pedaling and replace it with the new region that has pedaling material that should have stay with the region.
  3. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    when you say you are cutting and relocating sections, in which editor are you doing the cutting?

  4. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    It seems like it happens no matter if I'm in the arrange window or the piano roll below.
  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Normally sustain pedal information, being a MIDI continuous controller message, is embedded in the region along with the note information when they are recorded together during a single performance. Moving them around separately is not something that can easily happen accidentally.

    Was the sustain pedal info recorded at the same time as the notes? Is the sustain pedal definitely contained within the same region as the notes? What happens when you look at the data in an Event List window? Do you see the sustain (CC 64) info along with the notes?
  6. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    Yes the sustain and the notes were recorded the same time. I'm doing a piano recording. When i look at the event list i see under notes, position, status, CH, Num, Val, Length/Info. I don't see anything that says sustain info, i just see a bunch of numbers with all the recorded data. I don't understand your question is the sustain pedal contained within the same region as the notes.

    Anytime i do a software instrument recording and then cut a region and drag it to somewhere where ive previously recorded, it then plays the sustain info of the previous recording with the region ive dragged, therefore messing up the sustain info i want for the piano recording. For example if i have 10 bars and i want bar 10 to be where bar 2 is, i'll delete 2 and put 10 in 2's spot, but the pedal info will still play as 1, 2, 3, not 1 , 10, 3- as i would need. I can go back and edit the sustain pedal, but it takes a lot of time, and i thought i shouldnt have to. Maybe this explains it better. Sorry if i didn't explain it thoroughly the first time.
  7. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    No worries - you explained what you were after properly at the beginning. I'm really not sure why you are experiencing this unusual behavior.

    First of all, why are the CC 64 events not showing up in the Event List? That's the first little warning bell that goes off in my head that something is not right. You should be able to see the sustain pedal info. Make sure it's not getting filtered from view by means of any of the filter buttons in the Event List Window. It should clearly be displayed as CC 64 with values of 0 or 127 for off and on.

    Secondly - as a work around - you could use the "sustain pedal to note length" feature in the MIDI editors to solve the problem. Actually it won't solve the problem, just eliminate the symptom ;)

    When you use this command, it alters the note lengths to match where they are sustained until by means of the sustain pedal information. In effect it is "burning in" the sustain pedal info right into the length of the notes. This way things will definitely remain intact when you are cut/copy/pasting.
  8. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    Thanks for this helpful insight, i will try these things. I do have a lot of numbers coming up under Val and Num, is this what you are talking about. My event list has a lot of info. Under Val it seems to go from 0 to 127. Is this what you mean?
  9. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    These are the only things i see in my event list headings. Let me know if there should be more, and how they may be hiding.

    I have notes, program change, pitch bend, controller, Chnl Pressure, Poly Pressure, Syst. Exclusive, Additional Info, and that will turn to meta if i click create. thats all i can see right now. I dont see a CC 64, could there be a viewing setting i don't have clicked?
  10. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    You should absolutely be seeing events that are named "control" where the first data byte (the field called "Num") is 64, and the second (the one called "Val") is only either 0 or 127. That is what sustain pedal info looks like in the Event List. Make sure the filter button for "controller" is not enabled. If it were, this would cause the events to be filtered from view.

    If you are not seeing Control 64 events, then somehow your sustain pedal is generating another type of info. And could account for the anomalies you are experiencing.
  11. pianistguy

    pianistguy Member

    i have a controller but do not see a control for the first data button, and the filter button by create doesn't seem to make a difference.

    Whats the best way you recommend me retrieving the control. Do you think my midi connection options could be set to something weird? or some option? I dont know why its not showing up. The program is installed correctly so that cant be it. Let me know what you think, in order to bring it up, and i clicked the filter and that didn't seem to do much. Thanks for your help in my rare weird problems.
  12. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    It will definitely NOT happen if you edit in the piano roll, since the pedal information is not displayed there - and you can only operate on what you see.

    I agree with Eli - if you have embedded sustain information, then it must be visible in the Event editor.

    I find that the most convenient way to view what's going on with pedals is in the Score editor, since pedals will behave oddly if editing has removed the wrong links in the expects chain of pedal ON/OFF. By removing an OFF, you may leave the previous ON on too long. By moving that same ON to the new position, you may mess up and lengthen the ON that is previous.

    I find that the score editor presents the easiest way to view the sequence.

    hope this helps

  13. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Yes, the Score Editor is also a place to get easy visual feedback of sustain pedal info.

    Pianistguy - try this: Open up a new blank project. Record a region where you are only playing your sustain pedal. No notes. Then report back to us what you see in the Event List - or Score Window.
  14. sunhunter9

    sunhunter9 Member

    I had this problem when trying to use the PR editor. It didn't copy the pedal data it seemed. Solved just by doing the editing in the score editor instead. There, the pedal data shows up. In fact, it's great because if you want to say, insert a pedal off, you just copy one from elsewhere in the part and paste it in.

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