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Logic 9 moving midi events to first beat in paste

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Edgold, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    :brkwl:I've made peace with Logic up till now. But when trying to copy-paste, there seems nothing I can do to eliminate any unwanted sixteenth notes at the beginning of each measure. I realize that I can't manage to paste precisely though I've tried at different settings of magnification.

    And though quantizing has been explained to me, I can't seem to put any notes on the beats. They always seem to move ahead or back to a previous measure even in the case of quarters set to a 1/4 quantize and set to beat or tick or anything.

    And, yes, there is an overlap which I can't get rid of.

    I'm trying to finish a longish piece and I can't. What do I do?

    Help please!
     
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  3. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    You don't say what editor you're using - preference of technique and editor?

    Are these already there, or are you pasting them in? If you are pasting them in, why are they selected/included if you don't want them?

    If you use the playhead and position it where you want your note(s) to be copied, they will start at that point using copy and paste.

    Quantizing works, but it is blind to your wishes. If you play a note that is closer to beat 4 than beat 1 and quantize to quarter notes, it will move the note to beat 4. It always moves a note to the closest grid point.

    The concept of quantizing before moving/copying is it snaps the notes to a block you are moving (especially needed for notes that are played early at the start of the phrase). You can then move/copy and unquantize, moving notes back to their original locations.

    So we're talking regions in the arrange area?

    Need a little more info, thanks.
     
  4. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks Doug,

    I've tried arrange, piano roll, and even score and tried to move the midi data in each.

    Sorry, I meant 16th rests, not notes. these show in the score and suggest I haven't pasted them in at the right place.


    Quantizing works, but it is blind to your wishes. If you play a note that is closer to beat 4 than beat 1 and quantize to quarter notes, it will move the note to beat 4. It always moves a note to the closest grid point.

    The concept of quantizing before moving/copying is it snaps the notes to a block you are moving (especially needed for notes that are played early at the start of the phrase). You can then move/copy and unquantize, moving notes back to their original locations.

    I can have plain quarters, not always at their full length, slightly ahead of but pretty close to, say, the barline and quantize will move it back to part of the previous bar for example.

    See above. I've pretty much tried them all.

    Ed
     
  5. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Copy and paste as well as quantize should work to a T. Either you're doing something wrong or you have a corrupt project.

    Feel free to post a project here (or send me one) where this is happening. It would be great if you could:

    Tell me what your task is (i.e. move bar 4 - 8 to bar 11)

    Name original track and make a copy.

    On the duplicate track (please label) do your editing so I can see what is not working.

    Please don't include audio files, MIDI tracks only, thanks.
     
  6. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Ed, are your regions starting on precise downbeats in the Arrange Window?
     
  7. Peter Schwartz

    Peter Schwartz New Member

    Additionally, by any chance is your song start marker set to anything other than 1 1 1 1, perhaps 0 1 1 1 or -1 1 1 1? If so, that could possibly account for why you can't paste with precision. As you probably know, copying/pasting should be a no-brainer, but there are two situations in which Logic won't perform as you might expect:

    1) if the song start marker is set in the "negative bar area" as described above (it invokes a bug that causes pasted material to not end up where you would expect it).

    2) if the regions you're pasting into do not start precisely on downbeats or other exact beat subdivisions. This is key. Make it a point to always ensure that your regions start on a downbeat. (There's a function for making quick work of this, something to the effect of "set optimal region sizes". Sorry, not in front of Logic right now to give you the exact name).

    Also... when you talk about pasting rests, are you referring to "user rests", the kind that can only be entered in the score editor? If not, the rests you see are not copyable (and therefore can't be pasted). Rests appear automatically depending on a number of different conditions.
     
  8. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks all,

    I guess my problem has been that I wasn't looking in the transport bar (bottom line) to find the precise location. But I didn't yet do the final paste since I find the end of the paste has to be as precise as the beginning.

    But a further question: how do you choose the data to be copied? I've been using the marquee tool but are there better ways?

    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  9. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks all,

    I guess my problem has been that I wasn't looking in the transport bar (bottom line) to find the precise location. But I didn't yet do the final paste since I find the end of the paste has to be as precise as the beginning.

    But a further question: how do you choose the data to be copied? I've been using the marquee tool but are there better ways?

    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  10. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    You should be able to rubber band the notes you want in the Score Editor or Piano Roll Editor.

    Then you might consider learning the key command Go To Position. I have an extended keyboard and have assigned the command to the slash key on the numeric keypad (you can use anything, of course). I hit the slash key, type in my position, hit enter, and my playhead is where I want it.

    So by selecting the notes I want, using copy, go to position, and paste I will be able to copy perfectly.

    If notes are on the same track, you can use Copy MIDI Events in Functions menu of the Score and Piano Roll Editors.

    You can also use your locators to cut regions in the arrange area and copy those regions. Enter your locator information and use the key command Split Regions/Events by Locators or Marquee Selection
     
  11. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Guys, it's a latency setting issue. play around with your Audio preferences and the latency setting. Also you don't mention your buffer, or if you have plug-kins that introduce a very high amount of latency, all of which cause this particular issue.

    Disable all the big latency plug-ins first, and see if your notes swing back into the correct position then, and then try and change your Logic Preferences/audio/general... turn your compensation to "software and instrument tracks only" and see if that fixes it...

    Hate this one, it's a real PITA....
     
  12. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Guys, it's a latency setting issue. play around with your Audio preferences and the latency setting. Also you don't mention your buffer, or if you have plug-ins that introduce a very high amount of latency, all of which cause this particular issue.

    Disable all the big latency plug-ins first, and see if your notes swing back into the correct position then, and then try and change your Logic Preferences/audio/general... turn your compensation to "software and instrument tracks only" and see if that fixes it...

    Hate this one, it's a real PITA....
     
  13. Peter Schwartz

    Peter Schwartz New Member

    Hi George,

    I've never known latency to affect the quantizing of MIDI notes. I'm working on a high-latency project right now, buffer set to 1024, with Izotope and an Altiverb on the stereo output. Of course, this combination makes adding last-minute keyboard overdubs a beeyatch :frkout: but if I quantize my parts afterward, everything is spot on.

    In short, I don't understand how the audio side of things would have any effect on quantizing of MIDI events. Am I missing something?
     
  14. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Yep: Logic can be very un-logical and bizarre. It can move midi data to unusual places. And it has everything to do with how latency and delay compensation work with Logic. If I could remember the exact recipe to recreate this bug, I'd tell you right now, but I'm bagged, it's been a bit of a harrowing couple of days, and I really don't have the energy to figure it out right now.

    I only remembered this because of the exact description of the first post, and the lack of a resolution so far.

    I would bet that SOMEONE else remembers this, and might know the exact way to recreate this.
     
  15. Peter Schwartz

    Peter Schwartz New Member

    You're preaching to the choir. ;)

    OK, if/when you have time to post the recipe that would be great. But as I said, I've never seen nor heard of this problem before. I've been on Logic 24-7 for the past 15 years and, well, you know the drill... Now, does MIDI playback of "external" MIDI become affected by audio settings (buffer size)? Indeed it does. I've done the tests (and posted the result on another forum). But the OP is specifically talking about copying and pasting of notes (or so I've divined). Anyway, it would be great if the OP could chime back in and comment if any of the advice/info offered was of any use in solving the problem.
     
  16. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I think latency could affect the recording process, but should have nothing to do with the copy/paste if done after quantizing.... What am I missing?
     
  17. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks George, but I'm still not getting very far. I've done what you said by setting the audio to low latency and software and instrument. Now the latest is that I'm trying to insert a substitute section of a few measures from one version of the file to another which should be easy enough but whatever editor I choose, it puts the multitrack selections on a single track at the end of the piece.

    I can try restarting the computer (I already restarted Logic) but so far nothing works.)

    You're right, it is a big PITA!

    Sorry, I'm still a beginner in Logic since I haven't had to do this kind of editing till recently and I can tell you that it's incredibly frustrating.
     
  18. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Hey Ed, can you send me a zipped copy of your file? Maybe I can figure out the issue, or at least resolve that it's a system issue or a Logic issue (system meaning your computer)...
     
  19. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Hello George,

    It's an awfully big file even zipped (2.78 GB) and I don't know how to send it except by yousendit or something similar. Can I send it without the resources and where do I send it to?

    Ed Gold
     
  20. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Don't need the data, only the midi (which is where the issue is happening, right? So make a new copy, delete out all the audio data (DON'T Delete it from disc if asked,) zip that, it should be a few meg, and if you send it to my george3 @ utopiaparkwaymusic.com I should get it.

    Also, feel free to pm me with your info and we could arrange a quick call or something.
     
  21. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Hi George and all,

    I've managed to make some progress though Logic has fought me at every turn and continues to do so. No, I still can't really get it to quantize but I moved data around manually which helps.

    Though I sent you the MIDI file yesterday, it's not the same version I've been working with currently. And I expect one additional major "surgery" though I expect I'll have to copy each track separately and maybe there will be some measure deletions.



    It's labor day weekend so I'm laboring.
     

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