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Logic 9 Multiple Space Designers?

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by pfloyd714714, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    I use both Amp Designer and PodFarm for amp modeling. I recently bought some Impulse Responses from Red Wires for more accurate cabinet/mic simulation. Red Wires says to load Space Designer with one of their IRs directly underneath the amp modeling plugin. Set dry to 0 and wet to 100 and all is good--and it really does sound quite nice. For each speaker cabinet, though, there are dozens of IRs for various microphones and positions around the cab and, indeed, the room. I'd like to try a multiple-mic sound by using two or more instances of Space Designer. When I try to load another instance of SD, though, I don't see how to adjust the balance between the two. If I send one wet slider to zero, I lose all sound.

    I realize that sends are an option, though Red Wires only says to use the inserts on the channel strips. (Indeed, I've learned that if you want to use multiple IRs you really must place at least one on the strip. If you just use sends it sounds horrible.) Since you can only load on IR in SD at a time perhaps this is the only way to use multiple IRs with Logic?

    Jim
     
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  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    1. Set the channelstrip with the amp simulation to no output.
    2. Make two or more sends in this channel, choose different buses.
    3. Insert a Space Designer in each Aux channel that is fed by a bus.

    Two methods of balancing the space Designers:

    • Set the volume faders of the Auxes to unity gain (0 dB) and control the volume via the sends.
    • Set the sends to 0 dB and control the Auxes with their volume faders.
     
  4. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    Thanks for the near-instantaneous reply, Peter. I tried just using auxes and setting the channel strip to no output, but it sounded none-too-good. It sounded like some of the original, di signal was coming through. But perhaps that's because I didn't set the sends to unity. I just came in from the studio but I'll try this tomorrow and report back.

    Thanks again for your interest.

    Jim
     
  5. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    What Peter suggested is probably the only feasible way to make this work, and there is no reason why it shouldn't sound OK.

    Your other option of putting Space designers on channel inserts, is that any instances after the first one will not just be processing the "dry" signal, but are processing an already processed signal.

    So instead of simulating different mics and positions on a single cab, it will be simulating the sound of a one mic being fed into another and so on.
     
  6. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Just to throw out another idea here:

    What about setting the output of your channel strip to an unused bus, instead on "no output". And then create two separate aux tracks with that bus set as the input for each of them. That way your channel strip is getting routed equally by default to both aux tracks. Place your guitar amp processing on your original channel strip. And then place an instance of Space Designer on each of the aux's. You'll need to adjust the dry/wet mix of each of the Space Designer's to taste. But you can process in parallel like this with complete flexibility.

    Alternatively, you could maybe create a third aux with that same bus input, and leave that unprocessed. And then that can be your dry signal and you can leave the first two aux's with the wet signal at 100% and the dry signal at 0%; and adjust their fader levels to blend in to taste.
     
  7. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    The main problem I was having, I finally came around to, was that when I inserted the Space Designers into the Aux channels, they weren't set to 0% dry, 100% wet. That's why the sound was shrill--some of the original di signal was coming through them.

    I've tried what you guys suggested in last night's replies, but that raises another question for me--an amateur. I've set up the suggestion of "No Output" and using sends. I'd rather not use the aux faders to control the volume since I may want to send multiple guitars to the same aux, but in different amounts. I know I can use the send knobs to control the amount of each signal being sent to each aux fader. What I'm unclear on, then, is what is the relationship between the fader and the send knobs on the audio channel? Can I use either to control the overall volume being sent to each aux?

    Finally, let's say I have three sends on a channel. Is there a way to adjust all three send knobs at once while maintaining the relative amounts being sent?

    And thanks, Eli, for your most recent post. I haven't had a chance to try those ideas out yet.

    Jim
     
  8. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    By default the sends are "post-fader" which means that the sends are actually sitting after the volume fader. If you pull the fader down, all sends get less signal and vice versa.

    Sends can be set to pre-fader (then they become green) but if you want them depending on the volume fader just leave them to post.

    [​IMG]
    The easiest way is to move the volume fader of the channel where the sends are.

    ---

    There are a lot of possibilities to control the volume of channels and sends:

    Volume faders of the feeding channel and on the Auxes. And the volume fader of the subgroup if you route your Auxes to another channelstrip (a good idea, btw). And the send knobs of course. And you can insert Gain Plugins wherever you want. Setting up a sound is one thing. But a good routing plan and gain staging are important when it comes to automation and mixing.
     
  9. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    Thanks the info, Peter, and the happenin' graphic!

    Jim
     

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