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Logic 9 Project damaged!!! lost 1 entire work day!!

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by tigerman, Jan 18, 2010.

  1. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    Hi, after the 2nd crash my project still opens but every save i do after that cause the project to be corrupted

    if i open my latest save i get this

    do i have any chance to recover my project??
    i've tried opening it with 9.1 9.0.2 and 8.0.2 with no luck :/
    worst thing happened since long time :(

    both crashes has happened moving objects inside arrange, yes, the old bug has returned again!!

    SO be careful when reopening (crashed) projects, try to save and reopen before working on it, you may lose your entire work after that point!!
  3. mmm42

    mmm42 Senior member

  4. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    Have you tried to import it, you will lose all plugins but you may get all the files back. Often this happens because something in your environment is corrupted, many times some midi device so look out for this. The classic scenario is with an autoload that was created with different setup.
  5. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I would try import. I don't understand HKC's comment about losing plug-ins. Using import will bring in your plug-ins if you select the appropriate box.

    20/20 hindsight of course, but something to be said about regular backups under a new file name......
  6. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    it was off.. by the way i have 50 song backups in options so basically time machine is not needed.. i'll try to import let's see what i does thanks
  7. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Actually, using Logic's backup function isn't a good way to save/protect your files. It's entirely possible using Logic's save feature to back up a corrupt file and not notice the corruption until after all back files are corrupted. I know this from personal experience. You really should save regularly under a different file name such as Big Hit Project 01, Big Hit Project 02, etc. Then you can go back to an early saved version and hopefully find a corruption free project file to rebuild from.
  8. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    Hmm I had the problem once and got all the files back in the project but lost the audio configuration as I recall but maybe I forgot to check the right boxes. It was some time ago so it's very likely that I have forgotten about the details.
  9. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    If you did it in Logic 8 I'm sure that was the case - drastically improved in Logic 9. I use it often - kudos to Apple for that feature.
  10. Paul Zimmer

    Paul Zimmer New Member

    Logic 8 seems to save a vast quantity of backup files, but all within about 10 mins of each other, so if something goes wrong from any longer before, all of the backups are useless. Is this different in Logic 9?
  11. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I don't think there is any difference. Every time you hit save, a backup is created. I can hit save twice (or more) a minute easily, depending on what I'm doing. That's part of the problem. Your saves are representing a limited time frame of work performed. And once you hit the limit of saves you've set in preferences, old saves are purged to make room for new ones. Thus the reason for saving under a different name regularly.
  12. Paul Zimmer

    Paul Zimmer New Member

    Thanks for the info Doug. It really is a bizarre system, it almost discourages hitting Apple/S regularly.
  13. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Ah, don't take it that way! It's an easy system to get used to, really!

    I do a lot of training on Logic and I tell my students that command S should be like a nervous twitch. Save often!!! But once or twice a day (or more) rename the file. If you go visit a file that you haven't worked on for awhile, rename it before you get going. It's the "save as" function: shift command S. Renaming takes a second or two and you're good to go. And while you''re at it, back up the project to a different hard drive at least nightly, if you're working on it every day.

    Corruption happpens - this technique minimizes damage. Reminder too, I've had great luck restoring a corrupt project courtesy of the new import functions.
  14. Paul Zimmer

    Paul Zimmer New Member

    Hi Doug,

    I see what you're saying, and agree with your point about the value of regular Apple/S saving (which I do almost as a reflex action), but isn't it the problem with this system that if corruption has crept into your file which doesn't manifest itself for 20 minutes or so, your diligent regular saving has written that corruption into all of your backup files? Surely there should be the option to set some kind of delay, so that the array of backups spread themselves over days, rather than potentially minutes? Admittedly, Time Machine mitigates this to an extent, but not everyone has Time Machine, and it only backs up every few hours.
  15. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Really, it's not perfect but someone show me the DAW that is in this repect.

    Your best protection is adopting the system that works the best with the state of Logic today: save obsessively, frequently re-name the project (and start working with that version) and regularly back up to a different hard drive.
  16. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    I have to say I'm totally with Doug on this one. I hit command S constantly - without even thinking about it. BUT, when _I_ feel like I want a specific moment in my workflow saved as a precautionary backup, I do a "save as" with a different version number. There's a huge conceptual difference between "save" and save as" IMHO, and there's no way Logic can know when I need one over the other.

    When I am working and reach a point where I may want to experiment or take a significant detour, that's the moment I do a "save as". It leaves me safe and secure knowing that I don't have to worry about my undo history or how many backups my auto backup is set for. I can go out into the ether for as long as I want and know that I can revert back to EXACTLY where _I_ want to revert back to anytime I want.

    Try "save as" - it's painless. You'll like it :D Save as into the same folder, so there's no copying of files. It takes only a split second longer than a regular "save".

    And then of course, back up your whole project folder to an external hard drive at the end of the day. Or even more frequently if warranted.

    Just my 2 cents.......
  17. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    First open up a brand new blank Project. It'll initially ask you to create at least one track, so do it (any kind of track, it doesn't matter).

    In Logic 9 go to the top right corner of the Arrange and press "Media" and then "Browser".

    Within this browser, navigate to your corrupted song.

    Press the "Import" button on the lower right corner.

    Select all the tracks and press all the checkmarks. Press "Add" Don't press "Import Project Settings" just in case this stuff is corrupted (you can always recreate this stuff anyway).

    You might want to read the manual regarding this new Import feature of Logic9.

    Why this is not available via the File Menu's "Import" is a holdover from the old Emagic days of spreading features that should go together all over the program.
  18. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    that's the point, i can open the first (crashed) project logic has autosaved while it was crashing, but all the command/s i've done from that point are corrupted
    The bad thing is that on the first project that i've opened it doesn't says nothing, so i have all saves from the entire day damaged.

    I've tried the new logic import function, nice feature, i had headaches in the past importing using drag and drop :) unfortunately it does see the same stuff i see when i open the project.. It's lost forever!! :(

    fortunately i have done a track bounce before closing the project... hope is already ok else i have to do it again, and i know it will never be like before!!!
  19. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    OK, so if I understand correctly, you have tried opening a new project and importing tracks/plug-ins, etc from corrupt project and there are still problems? Looks like your bouncing of the tracks may be your only salvation on this one.

    Any problem with other project files?

    In the future, please consider the "save as" under a new file name as an important technique. I have found corruption on (for example) Cool Song 07 and been able to go back to Cool Song 06 and start fresh, corruption free. Granted I lost some work, but I didn't lose the project - which is the most important thing
  20. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Yes and this is the problem with all kinds of backup. Let's leave Logic for a while and think about backup itself. Here is the complete catalogue of questions a system administrator will (or should) ask you when you want him do make backups:

    1. How much data?
    2. How often?
    3. What is the retention time?
    4. Which media?
    5. How easy to recover?

    Questions 1+2 can be answered by the user. Questions 4+5 may let room for user wishes or, with big amounts of data, are determined by technical possibilities.

    The important question is number 3, the retention time. Backup is all about retention time. Many backups with short retention time can produce huge amounts of data but they are good for situations where you say, "oops, I should not have saved this!". These backups are preferably in the working area but you want to restrict the numbers of backups or your disk will fill up quickly.

    Medium retention time is what a usual backup system has. You keep a set of recent versions, for example daily backups for one week, and rotate the backup sets to get the retention time you need. Can be a couple of days, weeks or months, depending on the application.

    Long retention times can be months or years, handled in a similar manner as the medium times. Archiving has the longest retention time, in some cases indefinitely when you copy your data regularly to new media.


    Ok, back to Logic. The program itself provides backups with short retention time. This is fine for the "oops" cases but no parachute for every situation. We have to make the other kinds of backups ourselves and we need a system for that.

    One method is to save the whole project regularly under a new name. Depending on your personal preference you can store these mid-term backups in some other location, just to have them, or you continue to work with the newest version after you saved it. The latter is more logical but you definitely need a backup for the older versions or you might lose everything with a disk crash or another catastrophe like faulty I/O processes which produce data garbage (the "damaged project" is such a case).

    Starting with the Leopard operating system, the second method for us is Time Machine. It may replace the mid-term backup via project copies but this is your own decision. Since making music is a creative process, you probably don't think in days and hours when you need a backup but rather remember certain versions of your pieces.

    So, for short and medium retention times, we have Logics automatic backup, Time Machine and the manual project backup that fits somewhere between and is fully under our control. The clue is to make the three methods well-balanced. Once we understand the whole problem, balancing is quite easy because the computer has no idea about music, it just copies single bits without knowing what they mean. We know about our music and can make manual project copies at strategic points.

    The long-term backup is done by Time Machine or a similar system, for archiving you go to DVDs.


    I would say a good method is to save very often, set the automatic Logic backup to 50 or 100 versions and save important project states as new projects to another disk. The other reliable method is to work always on the newest version and backup old versions.

    In any case: Employ a (preferably external) Terabyte disk and let Time Machine run all the time! It's nevertheless called "Time Machine" and not "Sometimes Machine" ;)
  21. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    Main problem is that i have continued working from a (crashed) project, autosaved while logic was about to crash... that was a bad save and it has corrupted all followings, the strange thing is that when i opened the (crashed) one it seems it was fine :/

    well, basically saving as save as instead of command/s doesn't change much, i mean, you will not recognize you are working on a corrupted project until you don't close it and reopen it, so if i have used "save as" 7 times from when it starts corrupting you will get 7 corrupted project with different name, if you use command s you'll have 7 project backups corrupted :/

    I have never reached the 50 backup limit in any project over the last 15 years.. i automatically save as to another name before reaching the limit

    i do use time machine but keeping always on it collect a lot of garbage.. for example everytime it copies my win7 disk image if it's open, wasting a lot of space on my backup disk, i do time machine usually once a day, manually.

    then i do DVD for archive finished projects..

    I usually use save as only when i make substantial changes to the project.. usually xxx v2, xxx v3 etc..
    Thanks for the hint anyway

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