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Logic 8 roland XV /Logic MIdi frustration

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by mazgurg, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    Having upgraded to logic 8 from Logic 6.4 I have almost got to a point whereby the technology is so confounding that I am not involved in music any more but involved in software. I decided to ditch midi several years ago and go as the industry seems to be pushing me towards software instruments. I did everything required, I bought the super fast Mac I upgraded ram, I tried to like garage band and Apples bunch of Instruments. However I just longed for a Roland Bass or that quirky pad that always seemed useless but somehow just sits in a mix. So I went out and bought a Roland Xv5080 but it seems as though Apple has pushed roland out the door , when emagic seemed to support Roland and many other Companies. I cannot get a Multiset for that Roland Module from the Logic 8 software and anything that I try and fish from the internet doesn't work properly. (the whole idea is that if program change and Bank Select messages don't work then your module is useless). So my final question is , does anyone know how to get a Roland XV5080 to work correctly in Logic? Do more recent Fantom Modules work in Logic(Bank select and Program Change). What is the midi Apple story? or am I barking up the wrong tree -and - if so -what tree should I be Barking up?
    cheers
     
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  3. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    While the audio engine has been redone, the midi spec, and how it works, hasn't.

    Therefore, there was a older Logic file called multi instruments that contained a multi (or group of multi's) for the 5080.

    The problem is that the roland stuff has a number of ways it can see midi: a performance patch, or a program patch, and a drum patch. You will need to make sure the multi is cabled to the correct midi port to work, and then be in the correct receiving mode (RX) on the Roland for everything to work as expected. You would also need to select the correct version of the multi.

    FYI it's not really Logics fault. It's the fact that these instruments have multiple modes of working, and if you, the ned user, don't have things set up in the correct specific way, nothing will happen. The price of progress (or regression depending on how you see things ;-)

    George
     
  4. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    midi roland problems

    HI GEORGE
    thank you for you reply.At this point I will become more specific.
    The Xv 5080 promotes the use of a performance template called PR-A 01 SEQ template. This is the performance that I use which is on midi channel 1(default for this performance).
    From here on in I have found the Roland XV multisets, consisting of XV user set, patch sets and several Drum set ups. I have been very careful to set up only a few sub channels to test the system. I have no problem with Bank select or program change messages(theoretically) however when I change from e.g. track 1 to track 2 in Logic I am listening to the last patch that was selected on the previous track. If I then go to change the patch from logic it then selects the correct patch. Although everytime I change a track within Logic this is the case. However this is not the main problem. The main problem is that on all sub channels/Midi Tracks that i have created in logic on certain notes (not all ) sustain, not hanging, just sustaining. I have a Axiom 49 and a Roland FP-8 both of which I have connected to my set up individually and this sustaining issue remains on both. I have connected the Roland XV5080 to an amp bypassing logic and when this is the case the roland behaves perfectly, no sustained notes etc. I have tried multisets from both LUG and Swiftkick . I have deleted initial XV5080 song templates from Logic several times and started from scratch numerous times and yet these two problems remain. I have also set up a template from the Logic environment using logics ' Multi -Instrument' however the same problems persist.
    I am running Logic pro 8 on OSx 10.6.2.- M- Audio Firewire Audiophile - Apple iMac7,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ with 4GB ram - Axiom49 & Roland Fp-8
    BTW all audio running from logic thru these controllers thru the same audio interface runs impeccably with no problems ever.

    Any ideas?
     
  5. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    problem Logic / Roland XV5080

    Just adding that I have the latest drivers from M audio for OSX 10.6.2.
    cheers
     
  6. gblack

    gblack Member

    Hey Maz:

    Your issues with Logic 8 and the XV-5080 may have already been answered. If not, drop me a note, and I can email you detailed instructions, or a Logic Environment. I use Logic 9, but I recall that I have setups for the XV-5080 around. If you tell me the expansion boards you use, in the order they appear (A,B,C etc), their names, I can include those.

    I've been using those synths with Logic since V 5 - I'm on a mac, and I don't know if the lsos are compatible. If not, I can send you screenshots.

    It's not hard, and you can get drop-downs from any track to show all patch listings.

    Gud luck,

    gblack
     
  7. gblack

    gblack Member

    Hi Maz:

    As usual, I read too slowly and speak too soon.

    Seems you have the setups. Have you gone to your midi options in the two preference levels, and told Logic to send all midi to instruments on load? Also, try sending Midi reset. I had to fiddle with the midi signal options to go from track to track and maintain the proper bank/patch. But it can be done. I also had to set the XV-5080 to receive time signals from the proper source.

    Gud luck,

    gblack
     
  8. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    Cont. Logic Roland XV5080 frustration

    thanks for your reply
    I poked around those Logic Midi preferences that you suggested;
    I did the Midi reset one
    although wasn't able to pinpoint your other two suggestions being
    1...'tell Logic to send all midi to instruments on load?'....coudn't find that one

    2...'having to set the XV5080 to receive time signal from the proper source..'

    What would be the 'proper source'?

    I did have a look around those things but everything remains as it was..
    thank you anyway
    Mazgurg
     
  9. gblack

    gblack Member

    Maz - I'm not sitting in front of Logic 8 'cause my Mac Pro's in the shop (fan noise).

    My recollection is that in either main or project settings, probably the latter, there is the option "send all used instrument settings on load". That's the critter.

    Also, the 5080 need to have several settings -System->common AND System->Midi set properly:
    - "Clock" needs to be midi; however, if there if there is an SPDIF setting here, and you are using a word clock or Digi interface, you may need to choose SPDIF;
    - All midi options under common->midi should be enabled, such as receive midi reset, receive sysex, etc. Enable all those on the System menu, and you can make the 5080 read your stuff on song load.

    Honestly, it took me forever to figure out the proper config - such that I didn't have to "arrow up" a track then return to the current track to get the 5080 to hear it's orders.

    And, you must have the "bank and patch" box checked on the parameter box to the left of the track.

    When my Mac returns in the next couple of days, I'll post the exact settings that I'm using on my 5080s and Logic 9. Hopefully that will help.

    Best,

    Gil Black
     
  10. gblack

    gblack Member

    Maz -

    Waking up now, and remembering a bit better.

    Set ALL the XV's options (system->midi) to ON, including "receive midi reset", all that stuff.

    Then with Logic, it's a Project Preference - "Send all used instrument settings on song load".

    If the track Param box has "Bank and Program" enabled (checked), it should work.

    For example, I've had 30-40 tracks of purely XV-JV tracks on a project, and when I open the project, the selected track has remained as when it was closed - Selected track = an audio recording track - and the project will open, then play or record straightaway with synths (turned on before song open) all playing their correct parts.

    If this does not work, then your sequence template is not configured correctly (midi, per part). The default template that Roland provides (Pre-A 1? or 32?) or whichever, is NOT accurate. Example: Midi B (second bank of 16) defaults to both "Receive Midi" on BOTH A and B. Check it out.

    Better luck,

    Gil Black (waking up)
     
  11. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    thanks gil
    param boxes are always checked...
    found the 'send all used instrument ETC' and that is ticked..
    seemed to have set all XV options to on but couldn't find 'receive midi reset'
    thanks for your offer of posting your settings.
    Also is there any benefit re: the above problem upgrading to Logic 9.
    I'm quite happy with Logic 8, but then I was quite happy with 6.4
    cheers
    Maz
     
  12. gblack

    gblack Member

    Hi Maz:

    No benefit as to that particular problem, as I had it working fine with Logic 8.

    On the XV, in Performance mode, push System/Utility, then F3 (Midi), and the right hand column has 6 functions that default (factory settings) to on - including the last, "receive GS reset". I had to fiddle with these, and I can't recall offhand whether they should be all on, or just some. I had to adjust this. Likewise, I think I had to turn off sysex receive in the left column of the same menu. When my comp's back, I can tell you for sure. I've had to factory reset a dozen times in the last few days, on account of a Buchla Thunder I've been trying out, with a dead battery that was fouling one of my XVs.

    Logic 9 will read the 8 songs, so maybe you could email/post a simple several-XV track job, and I'll see if it works under my config - that is, see if it plays the designated track assignment without touching the track. Mac Pro should be back in about 2 days.

    best
    gb
     
  13. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    thanks for all that
    I will try all that from your last email
    cheers
    Maz
     
  14. gblack

    gblack Member

    Hey Maz:

    Just added an XV-5050 to the stack, and suddenly the problem appeared again. But only on channel 1, and only on the 5050.

    I ran through all the settings of the machine; they were identical to the 5080. Then I changed the 5050's Machine ID to 18. All Roland machines default to 17. Once again, it all works fine. (I think my 1080 had been changed some time ago).

    Give it a try!

    gb
     
  15. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    notes still sustained

    Hi GB
    thanks for that. I have run through System/ Utility on the Xv 5080 and changed the device ID from 17 to 18. I fiddled with all menu items on Xv interface regarding receive switch, bank select, program change. I rtied both sysex receive on and off and with the far right hand column in System midi on tried all those choices both on and off.
    However , thru all those variables sustaining notes still remain.
    Maz
     
  16. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Have you tried changing your USB or midi cables? Sounds like a hardware issue actually. I've seen this very behavior with bad cables. I just had a guy with a MOTU 2408 who had nothing but issues, and now no problems, all due to a bad cable.

    George Leger III
     
  17. mazgurg

    mazgurg New Member

    XV5080 Frustration

    hi George
    Thanks for the recommendation. yes I did replace the midi cables. Its just weird that it doesn't do it when I solely use Audio in Logic. However the problem with the program change still persists as does the sustaining notes.
    Anyway thanks for your time and your suggestions, they are appreciated as that beast (xv5080) just can't be used untill this is solved.
    I will keep plugging away
    Cheers
    Maz
     
  18. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Dod you try the USB cables being used to your midi interface as well? Or bypass a hub, or... anything with hardware. Double check all your data cables.

    G
     
  19. gblack

    gblack Member

    Maz:

    My stack included a 1080 and 2 5080s, and all was well until I added a 5050. I changed system IDs on all machines to be different one from another, and this solved the problem, until I did a system reset on the 5050. Now, troubles again, even with Sys ID changed again.

    I'm convinced the issue is in the performance settings. I am assuming you are trying to play a native patch on the 5080, not an expansion card patch, which would raise the issue of whether your custom bank messages are set up correctly.

    I'll explore further and get back to you. This is stumping me.
     
  20. gblack

    gblack Member

    MAZ:

    This is a long one, so forgive me. Mine all works properly now. I have four tracks in an LSO, one audio track, which is selected. Following are 1 5050 track and two 5080 tracks. I can change the parts for all three machines to something different, and as soon as the LSO loads, without touching anything, those machine parts are changed automatically to where they belong.

    At the risk of boring you to death, what follows are my Logic settings, and the relevant 5080 settings. Hope this helps.

    Best luck!
    LOGIC MAIN SETTINGS:
    Logic Pro -> Preferences -> Midi -> Reset Messages:

    All unchecked, except last: "Send Used Instrument Settings on Reset".

    PROJECT SETTINGS:

    File -> Project Settings -> Midi -> General:

    Miscellaneous TAB:
    Send After Loading Project:
    All three are checked:
    1. Used instrument Midi Settings
    2. All fader values
    3. Scrubbing with audio in Arrange

    Input Filter TAB:
    All unchecked (no filters)

    Chase TAB:
    1. Notes = unchecked
    2. Program Change through System Exclusive - ALL CHECKED.
    3. Text Meta Events: Unchecked
    4. Chase Separate etc: Checked
    5. Chase Cycle etc: Checked
    6. Notes: Unchecked
    7. Send Full Midi Reset etc: Unchecked

    ______________________________________________________
    5080 SETTINGS:

    SYSTEM/UTILITY
    F1 (General)
    System Tempo
    Clock Source = Midi
    F3 (Midi)
    Midi Receive Channel
    Perf Cont Chan = 16
    Patch/Rhythm Rx Ch = 1
    MIDI Tx
    Edit Data = off
    Rx Switch
    (all five) = on
    -------------------------------------------------------
    PERFORMANCE SETTINGS (for Chan 1, similar for all channels):

    FROM MAIN PERFORMANCE MENU:
    F4 (Midi) -> F6 (Palette):

    Part 1:

    Receive Channel 1
    Mute Switch OFF
    Receive Switch ON
    Receive Midi 1 ON
    Receive Midi 2 OFF

    F3 (Part)

    Part 1:

    Patch/Rhythm PAT
    . . . (any)
    . . . (any)
    . . . (any)
    Pitch Bend Range PAT
    Octave Shift 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    . . . 0
    Mono/Poly PAT
    . . . PAT
    . . . PAT
    . . . PAT

    _______________________________________________________
     
  21. gblack

    gblack Member

    Oh, and MAZ - one more - I'm sure you know this - your 5080 MUST be system-set to return to "Last Used" settings, and not "Default" settings.

    With all adjusted as in the epistle above, your system should respond properly.
     

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