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Logic 9 Set to ALL but sends TWO

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by jayfolland, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Hi, got a problem.

    I have a midi track set to all channels and it still keeps sending channel 2 to my keyboard.
    I know it's 2 because when I scroll channels on my board and pass over 2, it plays..:brkwl::brkwl::angryfire::angryfire:

    I have also made a new instrument in the environment and set that to all then moved it to the track.

  3. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Not really sure what you mean:
    1) you want the midi data to be played on ALL channels at once, or
    2) to not play on channel 2 because you are getting a midi loop?
  4. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Hey George,

    I've got two tracks each with different regions.
    And I have them set to all because I want to send them both to 1 and 2 on my board because I have different patches on both channels of the board.

    But all I can hear is channel 2 patch.
    It's very annoying because ALL should send to all channels not just 2...

    Maybe I've picked another bug!!??
  5. Gravity Jim

    Gravity Jim Member

    Jus to clarify... You are trying to get both Logic tracks to play, simultaneously, the sounds you have patched on both MIDI Channel 1 and MIDI Channel 2?

    Or do you want Logic Track 1 to play the sound on MIDI Channel 1 and Logic Track 2 to play the sound n MIDI Channel 2?
  6. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Hey Graity, yes the first example..

    It really is as simple as that which is why I'm surprised because i've been doing it for ages and now it wont work?
  7. Gravity Jim

    Gravity Jim Member

    Well, obviously if youve been doing this for a long time and now it doesnt work, something has changed.

    Did you check the "Receive" setup on your board? It should be set to "All," too......
  8. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Unfortunately I've done testing on other gear and ALL is only sending to channel 2 on these bits of gear too..

    So it seems to be logic, perhaps a glitch in the environment window?

    E.g. It's the same on other gear when I set logic to transmit ALL it doesn't play voices until I hit channel two.
  9. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Hi jayfolland,

    There are two rules for that which are not documented and I have never seen any forum comments about - here it is:

    Differences between Standard Midi Instrument & Multi Instr (ch.All)

    1. The Multi Instrument set to ch.(All)

    The Multi is designed for scenarios like yours. I.e if you plan to use 2 midi channels with an external instrument and use different Program Changes, Control Changes on each midi channel then use Multi. In the Environment window "New" choose Multi Instrument and enable ch.1 & 2 by clicking the Sub boxes ( to remove the diagonal lines of box 1 & 2). Select the Multi and rename as you want and set its Port to the hardware port where the midi device is hooked up to. Set it to ch.All.
    Click & hold the Multi in the Environment window and drug & drop it to the Arrange - two new tracks will be assigned automatically.

    The Multi behavior (non documented part)

    Let's say you have some previously created midi regions which midi events use say midi channel 7 shown in the Event list. When move the regions to the Multi instrument tracks and run Logic these events will be sent to the outside world using midi channels 1 or 2 - IT DOES NOT MATTER that the real region events are set to ch7 (when open them with event list, hyper draw etc). In other words the Multi Instrument object is the MASTER and it behaves as a transformer (it is another topic I may post one day). Note: The Multi behaves as a Midi Mixer !
    I.e the Sub channels 1-16 are just mixer channels and the global setting (when select the Multi in our scenario ch.All) is the master.
    The Sub channels (tracks) transform any region channelization data to their own numbers and if the Global Multi out is set to ch.All then outgoing data will follow the Sub channels law i.e ch,1 and ch2 will go out to the outside midi world.
    If the Global Multi out is set to say ch.16 then all midi data coming from the Sub channels will be transformed to ch.16 cause the Global Mutli channel is the Master.

    2. The Standard Instrument set to ch.(All)

    Go to the Environment window "New" menu and select the top choice labeled as "Instrument" - this object is called "Standard Instrument".

    As you see you can not create "Sub" channels for it in the Arrange though this object can be set to ch.1-16 or ch.All.
    In other words it behaves like the Multi Global channel setting I was talking about above.
    It can ba set to a given channel # or to ch.All

    Ch.1-16 and ch.All Difference

    If set the Standard Instrument is set to any ch.1-16 then the Standart Instrument will TRANSFORM the original region channel data to its setting. Example: if the region use midi data drawn on ch.3 and you play that region via a Standard Instrument object which channel is set to ch.10 then the midi data will be sent on ch.10 out of Logic.

    If set the Standard Instrument is set to ch.All then the REGION DATA CHANNEL IS NOT CHANGED. I.e the Standard instrument will behave as "Thru" port allowing the original region channelization.
    In addition there are some midi regions which data can use different midi channels - some SMF region which is not demixed yet for example. In this scenario you can set the Standard Instrument to ch.All and the external instrument will read all data properly etc.


  10. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Just what the doctor ordered.

  11. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Setting your logic midi track to all will allow that track to play back all miid channels available within that region.

    How to resolve: Take your track with the midi data on it, make a copy of the track and the data, open the event editor, select all, and change the midi channel to 1, glue the 2 channels together, and make sure the midi is set to "ALL".

    that should be it. you now have the data sending on midi channel 1 and 2.

    There are other ways to do it as well, but that is simple the easiest I know of.
  12. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    It is not necessary to waste your time in the event editor at all George.
    Read carefully what I have posted above regarding the Multi usage specially: The Multi behavior (non documented part)
    So it does not matter which channel use the events inside the regions. Just put these regions on tha Multi sub tracks 1 & 2 and set the Multi global setting to ch.All. The Multi will transform/channelize the region data on the fly.

  13. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Between you and I, my way sounds 1) easier to understand and 2) quicker.

    That said, i will have to take some time and see exactly what your way is and how it works. Yep, it is undocumented, that is certain.
  14. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Heh, I do not want to argue with you man. If I give you a SMF and ask you to rearrange the channels so ch2 will be played as ch7, ch5>ch12 etc, in the new order are you going to open the Event List and transform the channel data 16 times for the all channels if any ?

    The Logic Multi Instrument is designed exactly for that. You just get any existing region using ANY channel data and place it on the Multi Subtracks 1-16 when the global Multi is set to ch.All.
    All existing region data will follow the Muli channelizing law ! :thmbup:

  15. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    Yep that's it!! Cheers George..
    Thanks to both of you guys with great tips.

  16. jayfolland

    jayfolland Member

    I couldn't get the multi-instrument thing to work???

    Now it says something about how it can't do it because it's protected?

    Anyway it's working now from Georges answer but I want to get this multi to work??
  17. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Right now I'm away of my place bringing a PC laptop only so I tried to export a short video using an old Logic 5 for Windows. The Environment is same - nothing changed till Logic 9 yet.
    In this non-voice video I show how to use the Multi as a Transformer (in this scenario channelizing on the fly). You will see that I get two regions whoose midi data uses ch.7 and ch.12 (I show that with the Event list). Later I move these regions on the Multi's Sub tracks 1 & 2 and you will see in that the Multi transforms the regions channel data into ch.1 and ch.2 sending that to the proper parts of the external instrument. I show that in the Environment Monitor object and in the Transport Midi out box at the end of the Video. As a whole it is not necessary to spend your time in Event list transforming at all.

    Multi as a Channel Transformer
    Demo Video (QT 2.7Mb) - DOWNLOAD


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