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SMPTE

Discussion in 'Logic Pro X' started by Jay Denson, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    I have a movie clip imported. I want it to start at zero SMPTE.

    Frame 1 of my movie clip happens to be at bar 2 3 1 165. In the Movie Project Settings - Synchronization dialog I see Bar Position “n” plays at SMPTE ’n”.

    Here I would expect to enter 2 3 1 165 and have it offset to SMPTE 01:00:00:00

    But I have to enter the number as one tick higher than shown in the LCD to get the SMPTE to zero in the LCD. Why is that?

    Also in the Marker List (View - Show Event Position and Length as Time) I see the Length of each marker in the list as 00:00:00:00:01.
    What is that telling me?

    If I view as Length as Absolute Position I see the lengths as the SMPTE position of the marker plus one frame.
    What is that telling me?

    What I was hoping was that the Length column would compute the time between markers (for scoring purposes).
    I don’t see what the Length column is telling me.

    Any clarification would be much appreciated.

    TIA Jay
     
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  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hey Jay,

    Check your frame rate setting in Logic. Are they the same as the films? You can verify the film's frame rate in QuickTime Player.

    It's important that the markers are one tick in length. This allows them to act as locators in the tempo Operations window.
     
  4. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Marker List

    Hi Eli

    Frame Rate in LPX is 23.976. Don't know about the movie I imported - Quick Time doesn't have that info. I'm assuming LPX took the project frame rate from the movie.

    I'd still like to know what the length column is for. Attached are 2 screenshots.

    Regards Jay
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Jay,

    Don't assume Logic is detecting the frame rate, check it in Quicktime player just to be certain. You do this from the Show Movie Inspector window in Quicktime Player (see screenshots).

    Markers have length so you can set the lengths of them and use them as visual references in your workspace. For example, I often have markers for verse, chorus, bridge sections, etc. I adjust them to the length of the section and colour code them individually so I can see at a glance what section I am in in the arrangement.

    It is only with smpte locked movie markers where you will be using the tempo operations window that the one tick length is important.

    Also, markers with a length of one tick show as going on indefinitely in the marker list, or until another marker occurs. So, the one tick length thing is useful for that as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Marker List

    Hi Eli

    Thanks for your prompt reply. I use markers regularly - legacy from the old days.

    Frame rate of the movie was 25 fps - that of Logic 23.976. I didn't get any hassle from the discrepancy (that I am aware of).

    I still don't get what the Length column in the Marker List is telling me - whether showing bars/beats or TC. It seems like irrelevant information - but the folks at Logic are too clever for that. So there has to be a reason why you get a replica of the position list + one tick or frame. Surely the length of a given marker is its duration to the next one? That seems to me more useful information? I must be missing the point - possibly the onset of senility as I totter towards another decade?

    Another quickie - I use Play from Last Locate Position a lot. Sometimes it stops working - I then usually deselect and reselect the option to fire it up again. Any ideas?

    Regards, Jay
     
  7. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    The length column has two display modes. When you have "length as absolute position" checked under the Marker's View menu, it shows you the position the marker ends at. In your case, one tick later. If your marker was four bars, it would show you the position four bars later.

    When "length as absolute position" is unchecked, it shows you the length of the marker. In the case of a four bar marker, it would show 4 0 0 0.

    In your case, if you disable that view mode, it should show you 0 0 0 1 to indicate the length of the marker as being one tick. You have length as absolute position enabled in your screen shot, and it is showing the end position of your marker, which is technically one tick after the start position.
     
  8. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Eli

    Thanks for that. It is what it is. I still think it would be an improvement if the Length column were able to compute the duration from one marker to the next. Oh well - thanks for all your thought and effort.

    Regards, Jay
     
  9. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Eli

    I got this reply from David Nahmani on the Logic Pro Help forum:

    The length column is showing you the length of the markers, and markers are 1 tick long by default, even when they appear to end where another marker starts.

    You can resize your markers in the global marker track by dragging their right edge (even though they're 1 tick long, Logic allows you to drag the right edge of the marker where a new marker starts). So shorten the marker a bit then make it end where the next marker begins (it looks like you'll be shortening the marker for example by 1 bar, then lengthening it again by 1 bar). Now the marker has the length of what you're seeing in the marker track, which is the distance between two markers.

    This works and does what I wanted - computes the length of the marker whether contiguous with the next one or not. However I don't understand the rationale in designing it this way. It seems an unnecessarily complicated and arcane procedure.

    I'm passing David's solution on for those who need to know.

    Kind regards, Jay
     
  10. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hey Jay,

    I'm glad it's doing what you wanted. I guess I didn't really understand that it was the one tick thing that was confusing you.

    So yes, like David says, resizing the one tick length marker updates the info in the length column. It's only the one tick length marker before it is adjusted that doesn't accurately show the marker length.

    But I still hold that, when you are working with tempo operations and multiple smpte locked markers as the basis for tempo calculations, leaving them at one tick length is good insurance to make sure the tempo operations window functions will work properly.
     
  11. Jay Denson

    Jay Denson Senior member

    Hi Eli

    Hope you are well. All's cool again but no thanks to the user manual. How anyone discovered that is beyond me.

    Just bought Garritan Personal Orchestra. It won't appear in LPX and the Aria Player won't update to the latest version. I'm waiting for 08.30 CST to call them.

    Have a good day.

    Regards, Jay
     
  12. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of "old skool" info that they don't include in the current manual, but that long time Logic users know from previous versions. I keep my L9, and L8 manuals around - they have some useful information that sometimes isn't fleshed out in as much detail in the LPX manual. Hell, even the LP 7 manuals have useful and relevant info, particularly pertaining to plug-ins and instruments.

    FTR, I have them working fine in LPX on my system. So yeah, contact their tech support. There's no reason it shouldn't be working. I seem to recall though that the order things were installed and updated were relevant, but I can't remember the exact order at the moment.
     

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