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Logic 8 Stability of Melodyne vs. Autotune Evo?

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by daveyboy, May 9, 2009.

  1. daveyboy

    daveyboy Senior member

    I've been running Autotune Evo in logic using grahical mode and will typically get at least one crash per session as I'm tuning the vocal. This usually results in a loss of work. The safe workaround is for me to save the plugin setting as I go as just saving in Logic isn't always enough. I did have the Melodyne plug in demo at one point but never really used it so I can't do a comparison anymore. For those who are using Melodyne, how stable has it been for you? Also, it looks like if I buy it now I'll get a free update to the new DNA version, which isn't a bad thing, assuming I'd ever use it.
     
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  3. rainguitar

    rainguitar Member

    Hi Dave,

    The melodyne plugin, in general terms, works fine within logic. I have had issues with Melodyne shifting the audiofile in time, moving it backwards or forwards in the project. This is only an occasional problem but it does occur. Its a bug Celemony needs to fix. The other thing to know is that the melodyne detection process finds EVERY audible noise in your file and tries to place that on a pitch and timing grid. This can create quite a jumble in the melodyne window. So its a good idea to really clean up an audio file of extraneous stuff like pops, clicks, breath noises, ect. before you start the detection process. I would also de-ess the file before using melodyne. This just simplifies things. As an added point buying Melodyne now gets you a free upgrade to the Melodyne Editor which has Direct Note Access. If it does what they say it will do, it will be a truely amazing tool!

    Greg
     
  4. Colin Shapiro

    Colin Shapiro Senior member

    I have used the Melodyne plugin extensively and have never had crashes as a result. I haven't used Autotune Evo so can't compare.

    Melodyne just sounds so good!

    DNA should be totally incredible when it comes out, so that's a real bonus.
     
  5. daveyboy

    daveyboy Senior member

    I reinstalled the demo (which is limited to 15 minutes) and a few things I noticed that i liked better were: the ability to grab the pitch and just drag it up or down ala DP. A big difference that I forgot about was the ability to stretch and move notes. Also, I liked the contextual tool bar menu. One thing I don't think you can do with Melodyne is to just insert it and use it in simple mode like autotune so I think autotune would still get use on other tracks where I'm not going to graphically fix them. I feel like when ever I do anything halfway major in autotune it's hard to get it sound natural. I'll have to boot up the melodyne plugin and again and try some serious pitch changing to see what happens. If anybody has and uses both care to comment I'd love to hear it!
     
  6. srprose

    srprose New Member

    melodyne has a "fix all" pitch or time function (0-100%) - the only difference being you have to 'record' the audio to the plugin first. A small price to pay I think, for the extra facilities over autotune. Melodyne runs perfectly on my mac pro 8 core nehalem so far...
     
  7. daveyboy

    daveyboy Senior member

    I just ordered the Melodyne plugin and assuming they send my the serial number asap I'll be using it tomorrow. After spending more time on the demo I think I'm really going to like it. Question: can you draw in pitches in Meodyna ala autotune graphic mode (pencil tool)? It doesn't look like it.
     
  8. srprose

    srprose New Member

    I haven't used autotune for a long time, so can't really compare the two ways of working. Instead of drawing pitches, for vocals I just usually do a loose overall pitch tightening (60 - 80%) then drag any obvious baddies into position/ pitch. This way the vocal stays real, just improved. I have noticed when pitch correcting double bass, melodyne thinks it's a percussion instrument, & puts all notes on one pitch. However, I can still edit, it's just the pitches on the plugin display don't correspond to the real world. As I record numerous (widely differing abilities) singers, all I can say is people start to think they're really as good as melodyne makes them sound - another case of singer delusion {doh ray me me me ME} :)
     
  9. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Just as a rather relevant aside, I think it's time that Apple implemented track-based pitch and time editing of audio directly. I believe all the competitiors - DP, ProTools, Cubase - have some variation of this Melodyinish/liquid audio behaviour.

    The plug-in approach always struck me as gratuitously time-consuming and problematic, as one has to first render the audio into the plug-in. What happens when one changes the structure of the project by inserting or deleting measures?
     
  10. BuddyGuit

    BuddyGuit Member

    I hope this isn't off topic but what about using Melodyne for time correction? With drums. Anybody using it for that too?
     
  11. michaelo

    michaelo LUG Emeritus

    The idea is to restrict your use of melodyne to later in the project
     
  12. daveyboy

    daveyboy Senior member

    I've been using Melodyne plug-in for the past week and have to say i really like it. I think for natural graphic mode type of tuning it's better than Autotune as you can keep everything completely natural sounding and just bump the out of tune stuff in tune. The tuning in DP and this plug-in are similar, which I can appreciate.
     
  13. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Anyone care to weigh in on the pros and cons of the 3 major contenders as used in plugins in Logic?

    - Waves Tune
    - AutoTune Evo
    - Melodyne

    Cheers,
    mk3
     
  14. orjankarlsson

    orjankarlsson Member

    Yeah, Melodyne is better than the other two. :)
     
  15. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Thank you...but care to elaborate?

    Cheers,
    mk3
     
  16. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Fine, I'll start.

    I instantiated the current demos of all three in a Logic project, testing on a female vocal part.

    Here are the pros (+) and cons (-) as I've determined thus far:

    MELODYNE PLUGIN
    (+) time stretching
    (+) time quantizing
    (-) no export of MIDI (except full versions)
    (+) resizable window
    (+) horizontal scroll ball
    (+) vertical scroll ball
    (-) no navigation of play position
    (-) draw curves
    (-) no auto mode
    (-) must re-record into plugin upon edits of Logic project (that is, inserting or removing time, moving audio, etc)
    (+) great pitch transpose

    WAVES TUNE
    (-) no time stretching
    (-) no quantizing
    (+) export of MIDI
    (-) small window and not resizable!
    (-) no horizontal scroll ball
    (+) vertical scroll ball
    (+) navigate play position
    (+) draw curves
    (line, curve)
    (-) no auto mode
    (-) audio updates on project structure change, but not visual update, so still have to re-record into plugin
    (+) great pitch transpose - seems as good as Melodyne, even +/- 4 semitones

    AUTOTUNE EVO
    (-) no time stretching
    (-) no quantizing
    (-) no export of MIDI
    (+) resizable window
    (+) horizontal scroll ball
    (+) vertical scroll ball
    (-) no navigation of play position
    (+) draw curves
    (line, curve)
    (+) auto mode!
    (+) automatically updates if project structure changes
    (-) bad pitch transpose - chipmunking even with Formant turned on

    Feel free to add to this list or comment...

    Thus far it looks like no single plugin does it all, at least in terms of encompassing the features I want. I currently have the light version of Waves Tune, but would like to have the features (such as the pencil tool) only available in the full version. Still, the upgrade path costs as much as buying one of the other plugins!

    The time-stretch features in Melodyne are very nice, although one can approximate some of this with the option-drag stretch features in Logic.

    Yes, I'm rather obsessive.

    mk3
     
  17. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    One delayed response to this as I came across this on the Melodyne site.
    There is a page dedicated to using Melodyne with Logic, which might prove very useful to many here:

    http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=faq_plugin


    In terms of the audio shift, read the section on "Timing Offset" perhaps?

    mk3
     
  18. orjankarlsson

    orjankarlsson Member

    Yeah, that's what I said: Melodyne is better than the other two. ;-)
     
  19. Colin Shapiro

    Colin Shapiro Senior member

    Not sure what you mean by "draw curves".
    In Melodyne you do have a tool which allows you to adjust pitch glides etc between notes.

    re auto mode:
    Melodyne Plugin has a quick mode where you can do an overall adjust by percentage.

    The re-record thing can be a nuisance, but the general rule is to do your Melodyne adjusting last when you have your song form right.

    Regards - Colin
     
  20. daveyboy

    daveyboy Senior member

    Draw curves is where you can actually draw in pitch changes, or notes. You can make them straight or crazy. It's actually nice to be able to do.
    Auto mode just means that you can't just stick the plug in on an insert and have it do a general correction like auto tune. I also have the the Waves Tune lite but it's always seemed too limited to really use for real.
     
  21. Ming

    Ming Member

    I wouldn't sell Melodyne for money

    I use Melodyne 8-track studio version Cre8. I tried the plug-in but I wanted to hear the blobs just by draging the cursor, without play-back of Logic. With melodyne bridge it is an advanced plug-in and stand alone app. The Melo editor is going to have that cursor-audition so today I would go for the plug-in with free up-date to the DNA-editor. I have nothing bad to say about it, (I had time-delay ones) only missing what it doesn't adress, yet. I can musically re-arrange what I want and my voice quality as tenor high C is great and me singing bass low-D is also great. The debate is how to get rid of timbre-changing from flattend vibrato or to prolong vocal-notes but keep natural vibrato. That I do in Logic comping now. (I wish for a sample clone-tool.) I wonder how auto-tune handles vocal timbre-shifting? Does it clone samples or what? Downloaded it but never got it to work.
    I love Melodyne interface, it's big, visible and with good contrast on everything. You can buy Melodyne editor, but not mine though, I'm not selling..:D
     

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