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Logic 9 Starting synch up (((HUH?)))

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by FUBARd, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. FUBARd

    FUBARd Member

    I'm running logic 9 64bit in snow leopard on a mac pro 2.3 nehalem dual quad w 14 gigs ram. (which I'm still paying off) I have a MOTU express 128, a pile of dusty analog things and NI's Maschine running as per NI's support team's advice, in stand alone slaved to logic via midi clock through IAC 1. The problem is that I cant seem to get everything synched up right. I tried listening to the click outs from logic and maschine and beatmatching w the midi out offset in logic's preferences. That works for the instant I get it 'on' but then when I press stop and play again, it has to be readjusted. Seems to want to be anywhere between -30 to -20ms but if its even a little off, the whole thing sounds like trash. Feels a clock signal inconsistency or something. (?) Secondly, when the Maschine is synched for the minute, the outboard synths are a lil off. Further complicating, my two Midi/CV converter systems have a slightly different latency, AND one synth (a retrofit) accepts midi note, pitch-bend and mod-wheel data but goes fruggun haywire when it hears clock or timecode. :errr:

    Anyone have a systematic process for getting the audio and different midi devices all synched up? I come from MPC land so you'll have to speak slowly and use small words. :tongue:

    thanks! :thmbup:
  3. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    yes it's a big problem of logic, i fight with that on daily basis and unfortunately there is no quick solution to that.
    basically every time you press play on logic the midi clock (and also MTC) sync start at a different time, testing more i've found that those differences are step based and also buffers size related, so less buffer size, less differences (but if i'm not remembering wrong it does not change for buffer lower than 128, it acts like with 128)
    i've solved this (syncing with pro-tools TDM) using a combination of plug-ins, in detail, bidule + reaktor + voxengo latency delay, using a custom selfmade ensemble in reaktor and a selfmade bidule in Bidule.
    It's a bit complicated and also there is no chance to use it with external machines like Maschine as you need also a digital in and out between logic and Maschine in order to send/receive a custom clock signal for reaktor/bidule, i don't think maschine has a digital in/out and even an internal mixer to route those signals.
    The only thing you can do is to "accept" this delay while you are working and then bounce maschine and fix it once you are ready to do the final premaster bounce :(
    The good thing about logic is that it starts randomly but then it's perfect and does not change latency overtime, in ableton for example changes overtime a bit but it always starts in the same position.
    You can also try setting up maschine as master, but i'm not sure it will be a good idea..

    Else the only solution to get a real time good sync (but not sample accurate) is to sync logic with another daw (like ableton for example) using the plug-ins combination mentioned above (but you need 2 audio cards) and then send out the midi clock from ableton to maschine, assuming it's possible to do it while ableton is midi clock slave, i don't know much ableton... a pain basically :)

    maybe one day they will fix it.... who knows..
    it's like this since ages, i've discovered this in logic 7 at least, but probably also previous versions had it....

    i just want to add that it does happen also using real midi sync instead of IAC so it's not a IAC issue.
  4. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    I know this is probably done already, but did you read all the related documentation in Logic re Synchronisation (Preferences/MIDI and Project Settings/Sync). There are some troubleshooting advices and possible different setup options that could help.
    Why don't you run Maschine as a plugin, as suggested in the manual?
    I don't know if MOTU Express 128 allows some filtering of MIDI data on the ports used by those clock-misbehaving synths?
  5. FUBARd

    FUBARd Member

    WOW, thanks for all that Tigerman. I'll probably just use Maschine to export single loops. That kind of undoes it's purpose for me. Perhaps I'll just go back to Battery. Maybe I can figure out a way to use the sounds from one to the other. :-(

    I'd still like to get the timing somewhat on for the purpose of the initial writing phase. Is this an issue throughout the computer music world? Or is there any software not guilty of this? Perhaps Cubase, or Digital Performer?

    Atlas, as always reading the manual is an excellent suggestion but I personally tend to use forums as a last resort to avoid offending anyone. Good idea trying the interface, I'm pretty sure the Midi Express driver is quite spartan but I'll look to filter the output. I don't run Maschine within Logic because it's a crashy mess. NI's support staff actually recommended I run it this way.

    I have another idea. My midi controller, the MPK61 has clock out. Anyone think that might help? or just isolate the unpredictable lag? Since you say the IAC is stable, perhaps I can use that within the computer. I'll try it n post my results.

    as always, any and all input is appreciated.
  6. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    why you don't use it as plug-in as Atlas has suggested ?
    and yes, every daw acts differently

    you can try also using clocker from expert sleepers

    last chance also using bidule plug-in that is able to send midi clock

    i don't have maschine but from my tests the only way to have sample accurate sync is to use the stuff as plug-in inside the daw you are working on...

    midi clock always bring some unprecision/latency
  7. FUBARd

    FUBARd Member

    Tigerman, I don't use it as a plugin because it crashes every five mnutes.

    I'll definitely try the clocker and bidule plugs, thanks so much for the good suggestions everyone!

    If that still doesn't work I might try Cubase, lol!
  8. FUBARd

    FUBARd Member

    Environment window for the external midi modules.
  9. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    try using it as vst inside bidule plug-in, maybe is more stable ?
    you need to purchase bidule by the way

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