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Logic 8 Sustain pedal issues

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by markwhite1980, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. markwhite1980

    markwhite1980 New Member

    I recently bought a new sustain pedal - MGear, fairly decent I think.

    However, when I use it with Logic it does not seem to be able to completely release - the midi message reads up to 127 but then only down to 24 when completely open again.

    The pedal works fine with the keyboard in a 'live context' and previous pedals have been fine. I've tried switching the polarity switch on the bottom with no luck.

    I'm using:

    Logic 8.0.2
    Presonus Firestudio Project (incl midi)
    Yamaha Master Keyboard
    iMac 24" running OS 10.5.8

    Any advice greatly appreciated, if not it' going to have to go on ebay. :mad:
     
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  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Mark,

    You can easily rig up a transformer in the Clicks and Ports layer, between the Physical Input and the Sequencer Input, and set it to convert the value of 24 to value of 0. That would certainly do the trick.
     
  4. markwhite1980

    markwhite1980 New Member

    Great, thanks Eli.

    I could presumably save that as a layer or something? Would I always start with that template then?
     
  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Yes, definitely. Save it into your template. I would suggest doing it on the Clicks and Ports layer. It makes the most sense for it to be here and is easier to "trace" if you want to revisit it in the future for whatever reason.
     
  6. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Have you tried another pedal? Another thing to try is to reset the keyboard itself. Might be a calibration error. Doesn't sound like Logic to me.
     
  7. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    What kind of pedal is this? A standard sustain pedal is just a switch and should not be able to send a value of 24. Is it a pedal with more than two states (off/on)? Or did you probably plug it into the wrong jack on the keyboard?

    To check MIDI messages install MidiMonitor. It can tell you what the pedal/keyboard actually sends. Maybe there is something else than the sustain message CC64.
     
  8. markwhite1980

    markwhite1980 New Member

  9. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    FTR, George and Peter are correct. It should only put out two values. On and off, which usually correspond to values 0 and 127. And if it isn't doing that, it surely isn't a problem Logic is causing. My transformer suggestion was meant to compensate for what might be a defective pedal, not correct a problem caused by Logic.
     
  10. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    An M-Audio SP-2 pedal. The description does not say much but if it has a TS plug (Tip/Sleeve = "Mono") plug, it has only two states. Then either the keyboard does something wrong or is misconfigured or you plugged the sustain pedal into the wrong hole where it works like an uncalibrated expression pedal.

    If you have more than one input on your keyboard, something like Switch, Damper or Sustain would be the right one while Pedal or Expression would be for a continuous (Volume) pedal.

    The usual MIDI message for sustain is CC64 (Control Change number 64).
     
  11. markwhite1980

    markwhite1980 New Member

    I've used midi monitor as Peter suggested. This is showing similar messages to Logic a full cycle of the pedal reads 40, 72, 104, 127, 88, 56, 40 then 24 as the final figure...suggesting that the pedal does not completely release.

    I do notice that when using the keyboard in live mode (without midi) there is a very short residual sustain, short notes not being quite as short as when the pedal is unplugged, without even compressing it.

    I guess there's a problem with the pedal...I'll get onto the place I purchased it from and see what I can do.

    Thanks again for all the advice.

    Mark
     
  12. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    The pedal supports continuous sustain values. Some people like this because you can not only sustain or not sustain but have something like "half sustain" or "a bit of sustain", similar to the pedal of a real piano where the damper comes more or less close to the strings.

    I suppose this is not what you want. If the keyboard doesn't allow to change this behavior, you can turn the messages into sustain on/off in the Logic Environment.

    You need to process the pedal values in a way, that low values give you a zero and high values 127. The easiest way to do this is the quantize function of a transformer.

    Open an Environment window, got to the layer Click&Ports. On the Physical Input object find the port where the pedal messages come in. Cable this port to a transformer. Cable the transformer to the Sequencer Input. Configure the transformer as shown in the screenshot below.

    [​IMG]

    Important: In the screenshot the first port of the Physical Input (Sum) is open. This is not what you want, cable the Sum port also to the Sequencer Input. Otherwise you would only get MIDI from the port of the keyboard. The system is simple. All MIDI events come through the Sum port except from ports that are individually cabled.

    If you want you can just cable the transformer between the Sum port and the Sequencer without caring about a single port.
     
  13. rhoulian

    rhoulian New Member

    Hi guys

    I have this problem with an expression pedal wired to a midi keybord.
    This keyboard doesn't allow to connect a pedal with full range (0 to 127). The signal is off when it reaches 64... so I took a look at your post but I can't figure out what's wrong.

    My expression pedal is playing on midi channel 1, the CC number is 11
    By the way, with your method, will this affect all the others channel's 1 CC ? (I have knobs on the keyboard to control vibrato etc... all on channel 1)

    Here is a capture, you see the pedal is down and the midi value seems to be 66 despite the configuration of environment :

    [​IMG]

    Sorry, I'm french...

    You see that I tried to quantize the lowest value (pedal down, sometimes 65, or 66), but it does not work, the low value is never converted to zero. So I loose 50% of expression !!!

    I'm I doing something wrong ?

    thank you for your help ;-)
     

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