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Logic 9 switch between displaying CC curves of individual tracks/instruments in piano rol

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by artur, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. artur

    artur New Member

    how do i switch between displaying CC curves of individual tracks/instruments in the piano roll when i have selected more then one track/instrument in the arrange view? For example i selected violin and tuba tracks and see both in piano roll at the same time in different colours which is great but can not switch to see CC11 below for tuba and then for violin , only when i select violin in arrange separate or tuBa in arrange view separately i can switch between displaying CC11 for violin and CC11 for tuba in the piano roll.
  3. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    You can only view one track's CC information at a time in the Hyper Draw Editor, as you have discovered. You can navigate between tracks within the Piano Roll Editor by double clicking - either on a note or in the background.

    Example - I have violin and tuba showing, with violin's CC in Hyper Draw. I can double click on any note in the tuba part in the PRE and go down a level to show only the tuba part. Its CC info will now be displayed. If I double click in the background of the PRE, I'll go back to viewing all tracks, with the highest track number CC showing - it doesn't seem to retain the last selection, unfortunately.

    Remember you have the option of opening multiple PREs to view Hyper Draw - if you unlink them they will not switch upon new MIDI region selection. However, you can also view the CC information in the regions themselves in the Arrange area. This may be useful for you. Go to the View menu to enable this. I recommend setting up a key command for Auto Define if there is not one there by default.
  4. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    Does that mean a common edit of multiple cc's is not possible? Say, changing a cc7 fade across multiple instruments?
  5. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Yes it is possible - but you need to keep something straight.

    You can have CC information in Track Based AND Region Based automation (TBA and RBA). The discussion so far has been using RBA and that can be viewed in the Hyperdraw window. TBA is not viewed there and can only be seen graphically in the Arrange area

    If you want to edit multiple regions simultaneously, you have to use TBA. Use Logic's group feature, open group settings and enable automation mode.

    Especially in the case of volume, you may find it effective to assign a number of tracks to a bus and assign that bus as the input of an Aux Channel Strip. Then place the CS in the arrange area (control click on it for menu choice to do so) and use TBA to automate its volume. The advantage of this method is you can still sculpt each track, but have global control over the final volume.
  6. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Just to add to what Doug explained: You can edit multiple MIDI CC events across multiple tracks using RBA. You can do it in the Transform Window.

    You select the regions you want effected, set what parameters (in your case which MIDI CC messages) you want modified in the conditions row, and then what you want done to their value byte in the operations row. You can scale them, add or subtract to them, fix them to one value, randomize within a user set range, and much much more.
  7. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    That is an excellent tip, Doug, thanks! Ah yes, the TBA/RBA distinction. With the sequencer I come from everything started as a track (or multitrack) unless you wanted to treat it as a region, so I'm still wrapping my head around Logics paradigm and its implications (Folders seems to be a step in the direction I come from). Logic allows for yet another layer of abstraction...I like to think of it as a 'mastering' layer where all object output can easily be brought to one place and, as Doug said it: be sculpted into a final mix. Brilliant stuff. Thanks for the insight, guys!
  8. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Welcome for tips. One more tip to chew on. It's possible to convert RBA to TBA and vice versa using menu choices found in the track>automation menu in the arrange area. You may find this very useful at times for editing. For example, it's possible to convert RBA to TBA, edit, and convert back to RBA.
  9. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    Does the TBA remains on the track after its region(s) be deleted?
    If so, will that remaining TBA affect a newly copied/moved/recorded region on that very track?

    I am trying here to figure out the usefulness of both the TBA and RBA existence.

    Wicked one: could a region already containing some RBA be moved or copied to a track already containing its own distinct TBA?
  10. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Good question. I know when you move a region, you have the choice of moving the TBA with it or not moving it and having it remain in place. This is determined in the Track Automation settings/preferences found in the Automation menu. Not sure about deleting a region. I think the TBA gets deleted automatically,


    Technically, yes; it can. But it is a really bad idea to mix TBA and RBA in the same place. It becomes very difficult to keep track of what has priority, and they end up competing with each other.
  11. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Atlas - good questions. I encourage you to try this stuff. You'll probably remember the results much better. That's what I do before I answer a question if I can't remember specific behavior. And I spent years reading through this and other forums following threads and trying them out so I'd understand and learn the process.

    Regarding RBA and TBA on the same track - try it! Put some cc 7 in both the region and on the track and watch (and listen) to what happens. You'll find out why many people use cc 11 on the region to work with volume and use cc 7 on the track......
  12. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    Thanx for your advices!
    Seeking from knowledgeable people their experience is an efficient way to acquire some tuition, I find.
    I would however try your suggestion to see firsthand myself, as you suggested.

    On the same topic, since cc11(RBA) and cc7(TBA) are assigned to control the volume of the track, what would be the benefit (usefulness), if at the price of a fight between of these two controlers over the same parameter, as suggested Eli? (an example would be appreciated)...
  13. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    A typical use of CC 11 would be to control the volume of the plug-in. Many plug-ins are set up this way, or can easily be assigned. Common in orchestral sample libraries, for example. So you might think of this as a performance volume control. Use this to sculpt the attack, generate swells, that type of thing. Use CC 7 at the track level as the mix volume, seating the performance (with all the swell, etc.) in the mix.
  14. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Atlas,

    Like Doug says, the beauty of CC11 and CC 7 is that they can be used together. They don't compete with each other because they are unique CC messages, even though they both control volume.

    Whereas Volume track automation and volume in hyperdraw or the hyper editor do compete with each other. They are both fighting for the main CC 7 volume message at the same time.
  15. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    Thousand of thanx to you Doug and Eli!
    This is very instructive!

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