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Logic TDM TDM and Core Audio

Discussion in 'Logic TDM' started by tigerman, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    Hi to all, i've already written about this in the old LUG discussion group, i'll write again here as i think there are useful information that you should know before investing your money to get this configuration.

    The purpouse of this config is to have an extended communication between the native and TDM mixer, if you are using ESB and you mostly work with VIs and you feel that ESB is not enough for your needs this is probably the way you want.

    What you need:
    -MAC (mine is a G5 dual 2.5 with OSX 10.4.9)
    -Logic (mine 8.0.2)
    -Pro Tools TDM (mine is HD2 with PT 7.1cs10)
    -Pro-Tools interfaces with ADAT (mine is 96 + legacy ADAT Bridge->3x8 ADATs in/out)
    -Core Audio interface(s) with ADAT (mine is MOTU 2408mk3)

    Unfortunately logic doesn't like too much this set-up, so there are some issues that forces you to work in a certain way, in detail:

    -There are sync issues if you use CA+TDM+ESB so ESB must be turned off
    -Same sync issues if you use TDM Audio tracks, so also audio must be streamed in CA Audio Tracks, and you have to delete all TDM Audio track from the Enviroinment including the prelisten.

    [Note that this sync issue is very thin, someone probably doesn't care about it, in this case you can use everything.]

    -Bug- you can't merge Audio in Core Audio Tracks using glue or key command "Merge" while TDM is on, it does just nothing, weird but easily workaroundable, you can bounce or, much better, make a folder.

    You have to think of this configuration like having 2 indipendent mixers, the first one is the core audio, with 24 digital outs (and 24 ins if needed) where you work mostly and you use your favorite plug-in that aren't available in TDM (most? :) ), then you go out from here to the TDM mixer with 24 digital ins from Core Audio plus all of your external machines when you do the final mixing and mastering, everything inside Logic.

    Obviously every time you go from one mixer to another you will bring some latency with you, in my case is quite low (64+128=192 samples or sometimes 64+256=320 samples in heavy projects), but you usually go just once, unless you want to, for example, try some AU effects on the master channel. So this config will not be the best if you care about very low latencies and you work a lot with external machines.

    [note that even the final bounce must be done in CoreAudio, so for the final master you have to go from the TDM master aux to a Core Audio track input]

    Depending on how you work this set-up can be not a big deal because of audio tracks that have to be streamed throu Core Audio, you gain more outputs but having to use Audio from there just limits the channels much more.
    As i work a lot with Vi's and use very few Audio Tracks for me is just perfect.

    Let's summarize
    Advantages:

    1 - you can use core audio to solo.. as tdm solo is bugged right now.
    edit:this is not true, i've found a way to solo in tdm aswell
    2 - you will have 24 digital outs from native to tdm
    3 - you will have 24 digital outs from tdm to native, the dream comes true!!
    4 - you do not have to get pissed off again with stereo splitted files, saving lot of space on hd and lot of convert time. (and lot of space in arrange aswell, not to mention lot of space in logic control that is bugged and doesn't hide the second audiotrack anymore)

    Disadvantages:

    1-latency when routing in and out from the 2 systems (but is fixed so can be easily avoided)
    2-you can't use tdm audio tracks,ESB,EXS24tdm (if you want perfect sync)
    3-you can't merge Audio in Core Audio tracks (you must bounce or make a folder)

    [note that you can still use TDM VIs instanciated on aux channels like Virus, bruno/reso etc.]

    Ok that's all, i still have my old autoload that i use sometimes when i need to record with low latency or to do a quick mastering, for anything else there's my CAutoload :)
    It's more than 1 year i'm using this set-up and it has changed (in better) the way i work, in other words is like switching to native without loosing tdm plug-ins and processing power. I usually use TDM for convolution reverbs, mastering (within the track!!), eq and compress including sidechanin comp, if you have a G5 you know how much processing power uses Space Designer, i can still use it, but i add also 2 Revibe and a TLSPace in TDM, try to mount 4 space designer in a native only system :)

    I will keep this config until my G5 is alive or until they do something in Logic that extends the current (crappy) ESB to more than 8 outs and maybe to have Inputs aswell, and i hope they will solve the sync issue in next releases so i will have the option to use TDM Audio tracks if i'm in lack of outputs.

    If you have questions just ask and sorry for my "pizza" English :D, cheers!!
     
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  3. JaseBe23

    JaseBe23 New Member

    Thjank juoy

    Hey There
    thank you for your helpful post.
    Just one question my version of Logic pro 8 is coming up with
    "ESB TDM" "Plugin not found" everytime i open the program.
    I know i have to re-install the plugin but i can not find it.
    So where do i find it and where do i put it or install it?
    AND will this get My Logic talking to my Digi Hardware if Logic can already see the hardware in the "audio devices window"?
    I have read alot of posts and understand that there is alot of issues doing this but i want to try it for myself and see how it goes
    Cheers JB23
     
  4. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    you have to install pro-tools first
    if logic doesn't see pro-tools stuff it doesn't install the esb/exs
    btw i think you can simply take it out from the installer if you don't want to reinstall everything.
    there is a program to check inside the installer packages, i'm not at home right now and i can't remember its name right now, you can do it also manually by the way.

    you need pro-tools HD system in order to use ESB, it doesn't works with digi001 or anything pro-tools LE software.
    it's just a connection between the core audio mixer and the tdm mixer, one way only, and only 8 mono outs from esb(coreaudio) to TDM.
     

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