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Logic 9 too much MIDI data!

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by peterlemer, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    I downloaded this MIDIFile and none of my instruments can play it due, I'm fairly sure, to the sheer density of controller data.
    Using a standard Kontakt4 sample, The first example of breakdown is end bar 3 beginning bar 4, the 'Pink Panther' bit. Notes just go missing, even though they are active when clicked in Painoroll. Ivory is a complete disaster.

    the MIDIfile is attached.
    The MP3 is here: http://goo.gl/ijKLE

    Is there any way for Logic to thin the data/reduce automation nodes?

    I'm sure there used to be back in the days....

    ( the setting: 'data reduction' per se is confined to recording AFAICT)


    Attached Files:

  3. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    I found a solution using the Event List: select types of cc data as a group and quantise them, repeat for all crowded cc types. In the event I chose pitch wheel, quantised it to 1/64; then repeated for cc 11. That seemed to make it playable. Will try again in the morning

  4. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    I might be wrong but quantizing your data does not thin it out...
    You might benefit of using the Transform function in the Event Editor...
  5. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    Atlas: understood - I should have added: ' then delete duplicate events'

  6. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    Has anyone tried this MIDIFile?
    Apparently Cubase copes with it - what might the difference be?
    Or have I got my setup wrong?

  7. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I'll give the file a whirl in Cubase 6 in the next day or so. If memory serves me, Cubase does have a thin data function for notes previously recorded which could be useful in Logic.

    The notes in the file sound truncated in Logic.

    For comparison sake, I filtered out the notes in the Event List, then deleted all that remained. The MIDI notes did sound fuller.

    Is this file only the sax part?
  8. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    The problem is that this Midi File is specially designed for the sample modeling
    "Sax Brothers - Mr.Sax" Kontakt library, so you must own it to play it properly !
    I own this library and just tried the Midi File and may say that it is perfect work. All these controllers are essential for the sample modeling tech!

    If you want to filter some of the midi data which can not be used with regular sample instruments you can delete this data but not all ! My recommendation is to leave the Pitch Bend, Modulation (CC1) and at least the Expression (CC11), cause it can be useful with other sample instruments. It can be done in one step using a special Transform template where you can customize which CC#s must be deleted - hope to publish a free collection of Transform extra templates in my "Free Stuff" site section soon...

  9. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    Mystery solved!


    You're an incredible Environment master and I enjoy reading your responses even when you're not solving my problems. ;)

    Both C6 and L9 open the file equally as well and sound the same when using a non-Mr. Sax from Kontakt's Band instruments.
  10. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    Tangra - I've tried this file with Kontakt 4 instruments and they all fall over on the second phrase ( response that ends with a fall).
    All the notes might sound but not the right ones :)

    Have you checked with the score, at least for the 1st 4 (musical) bars?

    I have figured out a protocol that doesn't delete any class of cc, it simply thins some of them ( see my post 26th Aug near the front of this thread) - more precisely:

    in order to get the MIDIFile to play with the least interference and faff I must:

    1. quantise all cc11 to 1/192 ( the finest q that Logic allows)
    2. delete all duplicates ( since many events will now occupy the same time slot)
    3. quantise all Pitchwheel events to 1/192.

    Provided I do the above, I don;t need to delete or quantise anything else

  11. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member


    Have you considered acquiring Mr. Sax? Based on the expert response from Tangra, the file works as it should when using Mr. Sax.
  12. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    CSeye: yes, I want to buy the entire collection :)

    ....but have a problem with currency.

    According to their offer, the bundle costs EUR 449 plus tax, which my currency converter tells me is a gnat's willy over £393.

    But if I buy in UKP from Digital river they want to charge me £424, a difference of £32.

    Is this simply the difference between the mid-price and the stirling buy rate?

  13. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I'm not sure about the buy rate, and currency conversion, etc.

    Just curious, are you able to use Kontakt scripts and controllers to approximate a live sax performance? Maybe not as expressive as Mr. Sax, but expressive non the less.
  14. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    There are a few Demo videos in their site here:

    Scroll to the bottom in this page (to see the videos) and read "How to play the Sax Brothers" paragraph.

  15. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I'll look at that carefully soon. But at a quick glance, this appears to be very similar to Kirk Hunter's TVEC programming for Kontakt. It offers many parameters to manipulate in the pursuit of expressive orchestral instruments.
    He stopped programming new orchestral libraries for the EXS 24 due to the power that Kontakt affords.

    Say, when is your Bulgarian Folk Orchestra going to be released???
  16. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    CSeye: until you mentioned them I was not aware of Kontakt scripts - what are they and how do I get into them? I am aware of K4 controllers and use them but this is now my period for mastering them :)

    thanks for your feedback - very supportive, pete
  17. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I've never used scripts as coding scares me. :hippy:

    Video tutorials would be nice... (a blatant hint to the Logic educators...):thmbup:

    But in the mean time, this series is an excellent introduction.



  18. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    CSeye: thanks for that. <gulp>


  19. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Heh, cause he is not familiar with the Logic environment. Most of the Kontakt modern libraries come with special scrips. These scrips are just midi preprocessing which can be done using some extra Logic environment tool(s) etc.
    For example my "Chord Translator" shown in the Bulgarian Orchestra video and explained in the site can be compared to the Kontakt KSP instrument "Akkord Guitar" script .

    Regarding your question about the BG Orchestra - I'm working hard on it right now. Need some time to finish the "Kaval" (woodwind section), the Cello Tamboura sections and some extra orchestra massive loops. Anyway I'll announce that and will send Emails to the all AG registered users. You are one of them :thmbup:.


  20. bruno garza

    bruno garza Member

    You can just remove the control data and be left with the notes from that MIDI file.

    • Drag that MIDI file into Logic.
    • Open the Event List Editor
    • Click on the NOTES button to hide all NOTES and leave control data information
    • Select all the control data in the Event List and delete
    • Click on the NOTES button to reveal all the NOTES are still there
    • Play the MIDI file

    Here's a video on how to do that in Logic.
  21. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    I'll be on the look out for that message. :thmbup:

    Although I've had Kontakt as of v3, I'll still prefer to use the EXS 24 given the added functionality provided by Redmatica.

    My time on the web leads me to believe that you're among the best Environment experts if not the best.

    In my not so humble opinion, you should really set up an "Environment" aisle in your (Audio) Grocery store that sells single and bundled Environments and perhaps even Environment tutorials.

    That is of course, unless Apple does something really stupid with Logic...

    Best regards,


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