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Logic 8 Unable to properly save logic files to server

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by tedthetrumpet, May 20, 2009.

  1. tedthetrumpet

    tedthetrumpet New Member

    We've been having this problem at Stevenson College Edinburgh for the longest time, and I thought I'd try asking (again?) here to see if anyone knows anything about it.

    We are running Logic Pro.latest on iMacs running Tiger 10.4.11. We have set it up so that the students have individual logons (pulled in through Active Directory, I think), which then automatically connect them to a network home where they are supposed to save their files. The machines are set up so that the local home on the machine they are at gets wiped each time they log on, we wanted to enforce people saving files to the server rather than local machines. The files are being saved to some sort of Windows NAS box, although we also have an Xserve in the equation somewhere; getting vague here, I'm not really the networking guy...

    So, the problem is that when you try to save a file to the server, Logic says 'sorry, can't do that' or some such message. However, in fact it *does* save the file to the server. If you then resave the file, again you get an error message; this time it resaves the file appending a tilde to the name foobar~.logic. As time goes on students end up with a confusing mess of files called things like foobar~~~~~~.logic.

    Does anyone know what might be going on here?
     
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  3. leytonnz

    leytonnz Senior member

    hi, i dont know whats going on
    but i can say when i was teaching t uni two years ago we had the same problem.. our IT specialist couldnt figure it out ( not surprising).. and so we reverted to working on the computer drive but saving to the server drive at the end of the sessions.. id love to know what you find out.

    thinking out loud now ::::where do your samples live? do sessions with no audio act like ones with audio? ones with exs24 act like ones without? ones with apple loops act like ones without?
    perhaps a consolidate session before saving?
    good luck.
     
  4. tedthetrumpet

    tedthetrumpet New Member

    Ok, in a way that's good to hear; at least I'm not the only person who has seen this! The strategy of working to the local drive then moving that up to the server is what I think I'm going to have to teach the students to do next year, but... it's still not really ideal.

    Our file structures are all perfectly standard, samples and loops in /Libary/App support on the local drive of each machine. All Logic projects seem to behave in the same way whether they contain audio, insts, loops, whatever.

    Playing with consolidate project; yes, that might be worth a try, hadn't thought of that.

    What are my chances of getting a reply back from Apple on this, do you think? I mean, we're an educational customer, dozens of our students are going out and buying Apple kit because we teach it, I feel like they morally owe us some tech support here. What might be the best way to actually get an official answer?
     
  5. leytonnz

    leytonnz Senior member

    consolidate/saving to the local, copying to server is where we got to.

    i left it in the hands of my IT person ( as the work around i found kept the classes going).. they never got back to me about what they found, or if they tried to find anything.

    so i dont know if they ever got on to apple.( though if my experience of them getting on to didgidesign is anything to go by then i doubt it). and i subsequently left.

    my advice is to not stop going up the chain till you find someone that can answer it. In NZ there are apple education specialists so start with your version of that and go up.( knowing that they will probably not know anything but be hopefully able to point you to a person that does)
    Someone at berklee might be worth talking to , or a large institution that teaches logic.
     
  6. peterlemer

    peterlemer Senior member

    My Sound Design students at Luton had a terrible time with this problem, and I ended up insisting that they burnt their own CDs after every session ( the Uni paid for the CDs) - either that, or they brought their own backup drives. Several of them had laptops already, so they used those.

    One advantage here is that the student can then continue working off-campus.

    Caveat: students tend to take shortcuts if possible, so may delegate one out of a group to be the backup - perhaps they have the grooviest laptop - perhaps they're considered to be the most reliable...

    Then next session, that student doesn't appear - illness, hungover, an unexpected exam, whatever - the rest of the group don't have their work with them so can't continue.

    So I was quite on it about everyone having their own backup.

    ATEOTD, the attrition due to missing files was far less than that due to relying on the uni network ( a file missed for one week is better than a file lost on the system) - and it also taught the darlings a bit of street professionalism.

    :)

    peter
     
  7. leytonnz

    leytonnz Senior member

    hmm yes.. surely everyone can afford a 2-4gig USB flash drive these days?
     
  8. tedthetrumpet

    tedthetrumpet New Member

    Oh, they all have flash drives. Which they lose, or forget to bring to class, or which just stop working; is it just me, or are flash keys about as bad as floppy disks for suddenly dying? Then you get people trying to open the file directly from the flash drive and record audio there, which I would have thought would work but actually produces serious pizza-of-death action, Logic and the Finder just more or less lock up. (Near the start of the year I do a lesson where I throw a flash drive across the room into the bin...)

    Recording to a server ought to work. It's good practice, it's good for teaching students the idea of logging on to a network, network based storage, and it worked for three years when we had Cubase on Win XP.

    In practical terms, I've now raised this with our 'account manager' at Apple who is of course just a sales person but ought I would have thought to be able to pass this one to an expert. At what cost I have yet to find out. Be sure if I get this sorted I will post it here.
     
  9. leytonnz

    leytonnz Senior member

    for clarity.. i would never try to use a flash drive to read/write a session from/to.. im just thinking of storage..
    and im not convinced recording to a server "should work" ( though your xperience with cubase suggests otherwise), or that id want to.. hence i got them all working on the local drives..
    curious ..wouldnt it bottleneck if you get 40 students trying to record at the same time?

    looking forward to what you get back from the "experts"

    L
     
  10. tedthetrumpet

    tedthetrumpet New Member

    You know, I never thought recording to a server would work either. But as I say, three years ago, twelve pretty much bog standard Pentium III machines running Cubase SX3 over 100kb networking, and we were able to record and play back audio to the server without any problem. Only one-track-at-a-time home studio style recording mind you, but it worked. As a test, I multitracked a file of me playing about 75 tracks of trombone over the network, was able to record and play back without glitches.

    When it works, the macs with Logic also seem capable of recording audio to the server in the same way, although it does seem prone to beachball once students get past a certain number of audio tracks. And this is with a gigabit network, now; it feels like it ought to work.
     
  11. EdgarRothermich

    EdgarRothermich Senior member

    This is a bug in Logic that goes back to Logic 7 and was never fixed. Logic doesn't work properly with afp protocol over a network. Strangely enough it works when you use the SMB protocol or even use WebDAV to access your project on your iDisk.
    I used to have a server setup when I still was working on Cubase years ago and had to change our setup once I switched to Logic bumping into that problem. This is one of those issues where every other sequencer on the planet does that except Logic, very frustrating.

    You might check out those forum posts:

    http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6822380#6822380

    http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5375502#5375502
     
  12. tedthetrumpet

    tedthetrumpet New Member

    <groan> oh no, not more ancient Logic bugs that never get fixed! I've been working on this programme since it was Notator on the Atari, and I bet if I went and looked some of the old bugs from those days are *still there*.

    Anyway thanks for that information. I'll need to ask my technician, but I assume we probably *are* connecting via smb rather than afp, as it's a Windows share we're writing to. So, perhaps something else up here. Whichever way, I'm not swayed by the 'why would you want to do that' arguments which some people were raising on those Apple threads; like, why would a professional app be expected to be able to save data over a network? DUUUH!
     

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