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Logic 8 Using Multiple outputs from Ultrabeat and ESX Sampler

Discussion in 'Logic 8' started by abelpa, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. abelpa

    abelpa New Member

    Just making the switch to Logic, and loving it....

    I understand how to add the necessary AUX channels to allow individual busses from ultrabeat to be mixed using the mixer...

    But cant see how to assign the individual busses to different midi tracks so that i could program say, kick on one track, snare on another, hats on another etc...

    I have added tracks and have assigned them to the same instance of ultrabeat, but if i solo one that contains a note that is routed to other than the main output I get no playback, as it solo's the MAIN bus. How do you pick which bus of an instrument a midi part is controlling? Any idea what am I missing?? This is a fairly simple procedure on the DAW I'm switching from.

    Thanks for your help

    Paul
     
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  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    You are confusing multiple outs with multi timbral. Ultrabeat and EXS 24 are not multi timbral instruments. Although they do provide the use of multiple outputs. You route the zones within the instrument's interface to their dedicated outputs. It's got nothing to do with midi channels. The output routing is based on zones.
     
  4. abelpa

    abelpa New Member

    Just to clarify, I understand that neither ESX24 or Ultrabeat are multi-timbral.

    I prefer to program parts for drums on seperate tracks, for ease of editing and arranging.

    Having correctly setup each drum to come from individual outs, the issue for me is as follows

    eg

    Using Ultrabeat

    Track 1 - note used C1 - kick (output MAIN)
    Track 2 - note used D1 - snare (output 3-4)
    Track 3 - note used F#1 hats (output 5-6)

    If i solo track 1, i hear the kick
    If i solo track 2, I hear nothing (i presume because the output 3/4 is not associated with 'Track 2'... only main outs from ultrabeat are solo'd.

    How do i associate an aux channel with a midi track?

    This would then allow the 'inspector' tab on the left of arrange window to be used for mixing the said 'kick, snare, hat' tracks


    Thanks for your help.

    Paul
     
  5. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Let's say you have a midi region already created on the Ultra Beat track. Select that region and use "Split/Demix by Note Pitch ( it must be in the region menu I think - I'm away of my Logic app now ). After this operation new tracks will be created automatically for each note pitch.
    You assign the SN or Kick multichannel outputs in the Ultra Beat and you use the small "+" at the bottom of the Ultra Beat Multichannel Instance to create Aux tracks 3-4, 5-6 etc.
    When you Split/Demix by note pitch the new tracks will be assigned to the same Ultra Beat instance and if you try to hit "Solo" or "Mute" any of the "Sub" tracks they will Solo/Mute all.
    To prevent that you must go to Logic Preferences and switch to "Mutes/Solo saving CPU, slow response" something like that...
     
  6. abelpa

    abelpa New Member

    Thanks for your help, all good so far.

    I now have solo's working fine. :)

    Only other issue would be that I guess from what i see now, that automation of the aux busses that I now have cant be associated with the midi parts... all the midi/instrument tracks are on the master bus from ultrabeat.


    I prevoiusly used battery in cubase for this job, with similarly quirky problems
    if there is no work-around for this, I would be happy to get my hands on a simple au instrument that would allow me to trigger drum samples, with velocity and none of the complicated way that ESX requires. This would allow me to use multiple instances with thier own mixer channel.

    I like to keep my options open for automating things, hence the need for a workable solution. it would be a shame for automation to have to be on a track seperate form the midi data. In fact I haven't even worked out how to copy automation, other than that associated with a region.

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  7. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    I is Logic not Cubase ! The midi tracks trigger the Software Instrument instance while the Aux tracks provide additional audio routings (they can not be associated with midi).
    This can be done in the Logic Environment so you will emulate the Cubase organization.
    1.Create a new Multi Instrument in the Environment and cable it to a new Channel Splitter object.
    2.Select the Multi and assign it to "No Port" in the Inspector.
    3.Create Midi tracks for that Multi instrument in the Arrange.
    4.Cable each Channel Splitter pin to a given EXS or what else Software instrument instance. This way each Instrument will correspond to a certain midi channel of the Multi in the Arrange etc.
    Can you point what would you want to automate:
    -Software Instrument Parameters like Cutoff, Reso etc..
    - Levels of the Multichannel Software Instrument which are routed to Aux 3-4; 5-6 etc. or FX processing plugins inserted on these Aus objects.
     
  8. abelpa

    abelpa New Member

    Thanks for clarifying the structure of things. Been with cubase for many years, since Atari ST days... Just trying to work out the best working method for me.

    Absolutely LOVING Logic though. :)

    I mainly want to automate the levels and FX used on the aux busses. some would be send FX, others inserts.

    one example would be to automate reverb send on certain snare hits in a pattern, once i have established a pattern for this, it would want to duplicate it.

    Have tried Battery since last post and that gets round the long winded route on the EXS, but it would be nice to get a 'simpler' (ie ableton type) sampler to best suit my needs. Is there one you could recommend (so that i can have say 10 instances of it for my drum programming) a simple trigger with velocity controlling volume would prob suffice.

    If there's a plugin designer, maybe i should make my own?

    not strictly trying for mulitimbrality, key-groups are fine for my needs, nice idea tho.
    havent delved into making evironments yet

    Thanks again for you help

    Paul
     
  9. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    You're thinkin' too hard :D This is not so complicated to do. All you need to do is to create Arrange tracks for the aux/busses from the Ultrabeat multi out instrument. Then you can just easily automate the aux tracks in the Arrange Window.

    Open your track mixer and control click over the aux's and you will see an option to add them to the Arrange Window. Do that, and you're done. If it helps you organizationally, you could drag each aux track directly under the corresponding midi track in the Arrange Window.
     
  10. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Read the Logic manual about the "Mapped Instrument" in the Environment. It is the "Goal" of the drum programing using multiple Instrument instances. You can assign Custom "pad'" names for each note. You can map this note to another pitch, change its global velocity, change its outgoing midi channel, cable etc. The idea is you work with one midi track in the Arrange ( by creation a track for that Mapped Instrument ) and create custom drum "Hyper Sets" in the Hyper Editor with the custom names of your Mapped Instrument. You can load say 10 Software Instruments inc EXS, Ultrabeat etc. You patch the Mapped Instrument with 10 cables to the Instrument instances in the Environment, open the Mapped Instrument interface and assign each note "Pad" to output to different cable ( in the cable column box ). I.e C1 Kick will come out thru cable 1 ( EXS Instance one ), D1 SN will come out thru cable 2 ( Ultrabeat instance two ) etc. This gives you multi drum layering possibilities as well !
    Regards,

    Ivan
     
  11. abelpa

    abelpa New Member

    Ivan, you're a star for giving me so much time/input.


    Not sure that your workaround above fully meets my needs, all I want to do it to end up with say 10 midi tracks triggering 10 different samples, for which the channel and instrument automation would be included in the lanes for respective track. Thus making for a tidy workflow with easy editing as automation would follow region edits. It would seem there is no workaround for this in logic. :-( Dont really think using 10 instances of ultrabeat would be good for resources. Hence my hunt for a simple sampler that doesnt need so many mouse clicks and saves to get a sample triggering. (I do love the ESX for other instruments)

    I think, from my general research that this kind of issue with multitimbral and multi-out instruments seems to be an issue for lots of people. Some even suggesting it to be logic's major weakness.

    This apple support thread says it all really... (if in a bit of a long winded, roundabout way)

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2229063&tstart=0
     
  12. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    I do not agree ! The people who say that seems to be not familiar with the Logic Environment while Logic is ENVIRONMENT based. I had a look at that post and I support Christian Obermaer only there but is seems that he was misunderstood.

    I post an Article to the link you show in Apple support including Picture examples and different scenarios. My nick there is "Vacheto".
    Look at my Apple Support article.
     
  13. BlueFielder

    BlueFielder New Member

  14. Deaniscool125

    Deaniscool125 New Member

    Query

    Hi, Sorry for bringing this up but I'm new to logic and have a question about Ultrabeat

    I understand that using the multi track output creates AUX tracks per instrument so that you can add ssperate effects to eac, however the drum pattern still remains the same throughout the track.

    Basically what I want to be able to do is stop the outputs of certain aux tracks/instruments in order to vary my drum pattern because the same beat from beginning to end is repeptetive,

    If this is not possible I would like to find a way to export the midi regions into seperate tracks per instrument from ultrabeat without having to manually create tracks and delete instruments.

    any ideas?

    thanks in advance for any help you can give me
     
  15. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    You could just create Arrange Window tracks for the Aux channel strips and automate their channel strip mutes from there. That'll get you what you want, and there's certainly noting wrong with doing it that way.

    Having said that though, I personally probably wouldn't choose to do it that way. You can easily "export" a groove from Ultrabeat to Logic's arrange window by simple drag and drop from the pattern section at the bottom left of the Ultrabeat interface. Once in the Arrange Window, you can easily create several tracks for that single channel strip (If you don't particularly need unique effects processing for individual sounds in the pattern). Then copy your region across the several tracks and edit them in any of the MIDI editors so that they are each playing uniqe parts of the pattern. Then finally, you can simply mute, cut, copy, edit, etc the individual regions throughout the song to get unique aspects of the pattern playing as you want.

    This approach isn't better or worse than using the Aux channel strip's mutes. It's more of a DAW like approach though (IMHO) rather than an engineering "mixer", or "DJ" like approach like the Aux method is.

    If you're looking to do this in real time - which you didn't specify - then that's a whole other matter.
     
  16. Deaniscool125

    Deaniscool125 New Member

    HI, thanks for the reply, basically this method you described is the way i currently use, I was just wondering if there was a way the tracks could be created and seperated automatically, as its simple but still tedious. Perhaps if ultrabeat had a drag and drop for each individual instrument this would be the perfect solution ;)
     
  17. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    There is a command (both menu and key) to auto demix regions by note pitch,. The command will automatically split every note pitch out into its own region and, IIRC, assign it to a copy of the original channel strip.

    I'm not in front of Logic at the moment, and don't remember exactly which menu it is under. But if you do a key command search for auto demix, you'll find it.
     

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