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Logic 9 Vocal Playback out of Sync with music...

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by jasonmerrittdrums, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. jasonmerrittdrums

    jasonmerrittdrums New Member

    I created a song in Logic with MIDI, bounced it into .m4a format, then brought the .m4a file into Logic, and then was going to record my vocals over that, using the .m4a file just as a scratch track.

    As i'm recording the vocals live with the .m4a file, there is no latency, as I can hear them coming out of my monitors in time. But when I play the vocals back with my .m4a file, the vocals are out of sync. So it seems like Logic is changing the tempo of the vocals once the recording is finished and I don't know how to fix it.

    Does anyone know what to do to fix that?

    Thanks!

    -Jason
     
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  3. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    Why did you bounce your track and import it again?

    Do a search for "recording delay" on the forum and you will find the specifics on how to adjust this parameter. It should also be in you reference manual.

    Logic does allow you to set the recording delay. AFAIK, it corrects the discrepancy in the arrange window created by the hardware latency between your interface and your CPU. It becomes important when you have multiple overdubs, and then start slicing up your tracks. If it is set right, you can whack an audio or MIDI track, slide it into other tracks, and your composite track will be seamless, as near to perfect as the software allows.

    My most recent system is a Nehalem quad core Mac Pro (2.66) with only 3GB ram. It has hyper-threading, so applications think there are eight cores. That runs Logic 9.1.3. With the I/O buffer at 128MB, the "recording delay" is set at minus 38. It is not an audibly noticeable tweak, but it means the arrange window displays subsequent audio tracks sample accurate to the original playback track. You can verify it is on the nose by zooming into the arrange window as far as it will go, and comparing the samples in the original and overdubbed tracks.

    For comparison, I also have a quad core (PCIe) 2.5 G5 (last PPC version) with 8GB running Logic 9.02. Its I/O buffer is also set at 128MB but the recording delay (to achieve the same result) is set at minus 30.

    Both the above systems were using an Eleven Rack (Avid) interface with software monitoring on.

    The third system is a G5 dual CPU 2.3 (PCIx) with 4GB memory. It is running Logic 8.02, but has a MOTU PCI-424. Its I/O buffer is set at 512 MB, but software monitoring is off (the MOTU card allows near zero latency monitoring through the interfaces connected to the DSP enriched PCI-424 card). Its recording delay is set at minus 68 samples.

    I also have a ProTools HD setup. The HD cards automatically correct for this hardware latency.
     
  4. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    I suggest you don't go mucking about with the "record delay" function, it will cause you more problems that you can imagine.

    Are you saying the tempo is different, or the new vocal is just not starting at the right place?

    Are you running any high latency plugins on the vocal track (Multipressor or linear EQ are the 2 most people have issues like this with).

    Need to know before I can take a stab at the solution...
     
  5. jasonmerrittdrums

    jasonmerrittdrums New Member

    I don't believe I have any "record delay" function activated.

    The tempo seems different than the tempo of the .m4a file, and it's not play back in sync with how I recorded it either. The only plugin i'm using is the "male rapper" preset.
     
  6. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    The "male rapper" preset consist of a number of plug-ins... they show up in the insets (top of the track fader). What are they called?
     
  7. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Then you have never measured (and adjusted) the recording delay.
    But you have to: http://www.opuslocus.com/logic/record_offset.php

    George is right, most times plugins and software monitoring are responsible for wrong timing but nevertheless configuring the recording delay is a necessary basic step. If you don't do it, you can never be sure if the recorded audio is placed at the correct position. And correct means absolutely precise, sample accurate if possible.
     
  8. pfloyd714714

    pfloyd714714 Senior member

    George says not to go mucking about with the record compensation parameter, but Peter suggests that it's imperative to do so. Why the discrepancy? Or have I misunderstood George's comment?

    Jim
     
  9. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    The record delay compensation was designed to remedy a constant increase or decrease in accuracy of the audio placement while recording. It will take ALL music recorded, and move it back or forward depending on the latency of your system. There are actually specific ways to setup and configure this setting... and if done wrong, you are in trouble. All your audio could end up out of time with your midi. Most people I have seen don't ever do this, but if you want to be 100% sure you are not a millisecond out in your playback, do it. Just be careful and follow the tutorial or your screwed.

    There is also "delay compensation", and is configured in the audio preferences. It compensates for latency cause by plug-ins added to your song. Some, multipressor and liner EQ for example, require considerable time to work, and therefore play the audio track late. If your delay compensation is set to all, and you have one of these plug-ins in either one of your tracks or your master fader, you can have the exact behavior you are describing.

    The solution: don't use these plug-ins while recording or use the "low latency mode" button (in your transport bar area to the right) that will turn any of these off.

    That is the difference between these 2 ways of adjusting audio. The delay compensation is the main issue for the kind of issue that was first brought up... the record delay compensation would not be used to fix it...
     
  10. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Our fight is on Sunday 09:00 PM but you can only watch it on PayTV. We have very good fights!


    No, it's just that George blames other things for the time difference and most likely he is right. But you did not tell how big the difference is nor which audio interface you have, nor the method of monitoring you use. Therefore I mentioned that the recording delay must be set correctly, otherwise everything else could be right and the recorded file would still get misplaced.

    Generally, plugins and "wrong" monitoring create far more time difference than the relatively short recording delay introduced by the audio interface. However, in my opinion measuring and adjusting the recording delay is a basic process which should be done for every audio interface. If you are sure that this is accurate, you can concentrate on other issues.
     
  11. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Yea, Peter and I love to do the clothesline in a circular ring with no walls ;-)

    Once again we agree. The record delay compensation is a good thing to do... mind you, most of the better interfaces out today are pretty good, and most people have powerful computers, heck, todays iMac blows the walls off the last generation 4 core Mac Pro's.

    So while I might think of it as being a bit frivolous or a bit paranoid, is is a good idea to do this test and adjust this parameter.

    I still stand by my first suggestion that it is not this, rather a "automatic delay compensation" issue!

    And if anyone wants to fight about it, meet me behind the 7-11 at First and Fountain in Los Angeles at 11 am, July 8, 2011. I'll kick your (bleeped out due to our younger LUG users)...

    Mind you, you will have to build a time machine first ;-))
     
  12. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    I disagree with both Peter and George but not for any substantive reason, just to pick a fight :)
     

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