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Logic 9 Where does CA (controller assignments) reside in the (MIDI) data flow?

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by xmiinc, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    Is it between Physical inputs and Sequencer input, or after Sequencer input?
     
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  3. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Before the Physical input or the Physical Input bypasses the "learned" data directly to CA.
     
  4. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    Thanks, Tangra! Very interesting. When you say "bypasses the 'learned' data" you mean it basically forwards matching controller data from Physical input directly to Sequencer input via the CA, correct?

    If so, that leads me to another question: What are these pre-built Environment modules (like the Appkats.com TLI series) that do the same thing, but reside between Physical input and Sequencer input in the Environment? Are they basically mapped inputs (macros?) that are the functional equivalent of a Learned assignment?
     
  5. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    The Appkats.com TLI series is nothing more than a traditional Environment setups (incl. transformers, cables etc) packed into a Macro.
    I have created my "Parameter Hunter" (PH) smart Macro much before Appkats back in 2003-2004 I think. The PH is a small complex Macro which can capture ANY parameter from the Channel Strip (you can learn up to 64 parameters to custom CC# per Macro instance (you can copy the PH etc).
    Unlike the Appkats.com TLI series or the Logic CA the PH supports Midi Feedback feature (like the Cubase generic control dialog for example)! That means: if you tweak any previously "learned" plugin or channel strip parameter then the Channel strip will send the corespondent CC# back to your Hardware device so the hardware knob or fader will update according to the Logic parameter (your hardware must support "midi feedback" feature - the cheep Behringer BCR2000 series does that for instance).
    I have made a short demo video for an old Audiogrocery client so I just found that video on my server. Download this quick video from below and watch. I have created a few Colorful faders in the environment which send CC# messages - i.e those faders emulate external Hardware Controller. I demonstrate the Midi Feedback feature at the end of the video so you will see how the Emulation faders will update when I tweak the Logic plugin. As a hole PH is a small and very useful tool - you can keep it in your template and if move your project to another computers your assignments will work without problem unlike CA which requires additional work. Though the PH is not officially offered in the Audiogrocery web site it is on sale, so if anybody have an interest of it can contact me in the site - contacts. The tool price is 23Euro.

    Audiogrocery Logic Parameter Hunter -
    DEMO VIDEO
     
  6. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    Again, very interesting--and thank you for the examples and offer, Tangra.

    So a packaged macro can be the functional equivalent of the CA with one very important distinction: it forms an object that precedes the Sequencer input, yes? So, while the CA is very useful and quite flexible in its own right, if one wants/needs to simultaneously perform MIDI transformations on the data before the Sequencer input, it sounds like you pretty much have to wire up a macro to do it. That's very insightful. Are there sources available that get into building macros? Logic's manual gives one an overview of the process, but nothing very structured.
     
  7. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Right. If you create some Environment setup (it can be open scheme as well not a Macro) which can "learn" parameters like mine "Parameter Hunter" then you have endless possibility to patch lots of Environment midi processing "in between" like randomization, various scales, parameter to parameter transforming, etc. Another goal is that you can use the CC# to control the Channel strip & plugin parameters and use the same CC# musically - it's well known that CA ignores the CC#s which are "learned" so you can not use these CC#s in Logic.
    Regarding the Macros. First of all you have to study the Environment in details - the Macro creation is the last packaging of the scheme plus making some nice UI design. The Macro requires two named objects: Macro-In and Macro-Out.
    Doing that you define which is the midi IN object and which is the midi OUT one, nothing special.
     
  8. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    Wow. Thanks again, Tangra. That sound you're hearing is my brain expanding/exploding! ☺ The possibilities are endless. Who needs MAX anymore, if all you need is MIDI-processing?! Logic's environment can do it all.
     
  9. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    Correct ! :thmbup:
     
  10. xmiinc

    xmiinc Member

    For me, the real utility of the PH is that it mimics the CA 'Learn' function but without removing the learned CC from the data stream (eg Logic's 'floating port issue'), allowing, as you mention, Tangra, any/all transformations to occur before the data hits the channel strip. And the added bonus is the transportability of the learned assignments between projects!

    I could use one PH for each of the 3 nanoKontrol's I have wired into my rig. Each nanoK can drive 51 cc's. (Are the PH assignments 'stored' as part of the Environment?)

    For me, the MIDI feedback capability isn't as important (in terms of moving faders, like on your BCR2000, for instance) But portability and keeping Learned assignments inside the Environment very much are--and worth paying $$ for it. I'll be contacting you on your site for this object, Tangra.

    PS: Why isn't Apple>Logic licensing this macro from you? Lol. I can't imagine what the guts of this macro looks like! There must be a fair amount of 'complexity' involved.
     

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