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Logic 9 Which "signals" will bypass the Environment

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by oortone, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. oortone

    oortone Member

    I've recently learned that program change messages from external gear sent to audio channels in Logic in order to select channel strip settings (called "Performance") will bypass the Environment and go straight to the selected object.

    Also I know Controller assignments bypasses the Environment.

    Are there any other "signals" which does not take advantage of the Environment? Useful information to anyone who (like me) still are trying to use the Environment to do cool stuff. It's a bit disappoining to find that some signals flows behind the scenes secretly and can't be reached. Making the Environment obsolete...
  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Program Changes on channel 1.
    Channels 2-16 are receivable in the Environment.

    Nothing that is assigned by Automation Quick Access, Controller Assignments or Key Commands, shows up in the environment.

    MIDI Clock, Active Sense and MMC cannot be processed.

    And all values are restricted to 1-127. You don't have 10-Bit faders for example.

    You cannot combine Controller Assignments and Environment processing. I wouldn't say that this renders the Environment obsolete. Do you have a particular problem with this situation?

    Or a particular situation for this problem? :)
  4. oortone

    oortone Member

    I can see why controller assignments (at least with complicated control surfaces) are left out of the Environment. Otherwise things could get messy. But I've had situations where I wanted to process incoming CC before sending them to an instrument control. So it could definitely be useful.

    A lot of new functionality from the last 5 years are kept out of the Environment. There was a time when the Environment was equal to the complete internal signaling in Logic (except for audio) and that was really very useful. If they wanted to Environment to be up to date then all new "signals" would be included, like a kind of meta events. But that's not the case, hence the Environment is obsolete.
  5. Petrosil

    Petrosil Member

    This is not true. Program change events, when not occupied by Controller Assignments, do pass the Environment, and you can change them by cabling a Transformer object between Physical Input and Sequencer Input objects.

    Regarding the Performance switching: Program change events on MIDI channel 1 do recall Performance settings on the selected track (given the user has stored Performances with the respective program numbers). Program change events on MIDI channels 2-16 are passed thru to the plug-ins in the channel strip/track instrument of the selected track.

    But as I said: Even if you own a MIDI hardware that can only send program changes on MIDI channel 1. you may change the channel of the events in the Click&Ports layer of the Environment, before the events reach the selected track.


  6. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    So your complaint is, that there were no improvements in the Environment over many years. This is true but doesn't make it obsolete. I use the environment in almost every project and would hate to employ an external program for my MIDI processing. Nobody would start a big Environment project today but it is still as useful as it was. Some people, including me, saw it as a development platform. Now it is a tool box. That's ok in my opinion.

    However, I see your point. No other DAW has something like the Logic Environment. I don't know why Apple doesn't want to make it even better. Maybe it is a matter of interest or a matter of development time and they rather concentrate on audio features where they have serious competition.
  7. oortone

    oortone Member

    Actually I meant Program Change events targeted for changing channel strip settings. But, investing this further it turns out these can be processed by the environment too. So you're right. The strangeness here is that it only works if the Program Change message comes from external gear. If I create it inside the Environment it can not change channel strip performance although it looks identical in a midi monitor. That's quite weird, and I had to spend hour figuring out what was wrong.
  8. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Send them to the IAC bus to make them "external".
  9. oortone

    oortone Member

    Yes, thanks that the solution. One has to beware of midi loops in this case...

    Very strange though, the distinction between internal and externa program change messages.

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